From our other sites
The story
A survey conducted by Professor Megumi Ohashi (social psychology) of Tokyo Future University on people who took middle school entrance exams found that while exam-takers go on to university at higher rates, there was no notable difference in their income once they reached adulthood — a finding reported by the Asahi Shimbun. On 5ch, some questioned the small sample size and the academic ranking of the university that conducted the study, while a stream of comments argued that “the real benefit of middle school entrance exams isn’t income, it’s avoiding the rough environment of public schools,” developing into a debate over the difference in environment between private integrated junior-senior high schools and public middle schools.
Published 9/27 (Sun) 13:00
Asahi Shimbun
People who took middle school entrance exams go on to university at higher rates — but that doesn’t necessarily mean they earn more once they reach adulthood. That’s the picture that emerged from a survey of middle-school-exam takers conducted by Professor Megumi Ohashi of Tokyo Future University (social psychology) and others.
Source: news.yahoo.co.jp / Original article here
What people said
Re: #1
Only 500 people?
With a sample that small,
you can't trust this as real statistical data.
Only 500 people?
With a sample that small,
you can't trust this as real statistical data.
Re: #2
Fuji TV: 'If you're taking a survey, you need at least 2000 people, right?'
Fuji TV: 'If you're taking a survey, you need at least 2000 people, right?'
Re: #2
What's the point of nitpicking a sample survey?
Everyone knows a one-off study report like this has low reproducibility.
Don't tell me you actually believe opinion polls?
What's the point of nitpicking a sample survey?
Everyone knows a one-off study report like this has low reproducibility.
Don't tell me you actually believe opinion polls?
Re: #2
It's Tokyo Future University — a Kawaijuku hensachi (the standard Japanese college-difficulty score, from the major cram school Kawaijuku) of just 35–37.5 — and on top of that it's social psychology (lol). What did you expect?
It's Tokyo Future University — a Kawaijuku hensachi (the standard Japanese college-difficulty score, from the major cram school Kawaijuku) of just 35–37.5 — and on top of that it's social psychology (lol). What did you expect?
But income still goes up the higher the hensachi, right?
Re: #7
Looking at income rankings by university, yeah, that's about right.
The more elite the university, the higher the income.
Looking at income rankings by university, yeah, that's about right.
The more elite the university, the higher the income.
Re: #7
Plenty of people here on 5ch graduated from high-hensachi universities and are still unemployed.
Apparently they have no motivation to work,
and can't adapt to company jobs.
Plenty of people here on 5ch graduated from high-hensachi universities and are still unemployed.
Apparently they have no motivation to work,
and can't adapt to company jobs.
Tokyo Future University
Hensachi
35.0 – 37.5
Hensachi
35.0 – 37.5
Re: #53
A bottom-tier school like this ('F-rank') shouldn't even exist.
Waste of tax money.
A bottom-tier school like this ('F-rank') shouldn't even exist.
Waste of tax money.
Re: #53
A low-hensachi school on par with Japan University of Economics.
Even from an F-rank like this, graduating still technically makes you a college grad.
A low-hensachi school on par with Japan University of Economics.
Even from an F-rank like this, graduating still technically makes you a college grad.
Re: #53
Tokyo Future University might be a bottom-tier school,
but Professor Ohashi, who ran the study, is a Tokyo University grad.
Tokyo Future University might be a bottom-tier school,
but Professor Ohashi, who ran the study, is a Tokyo University grad.
Being able to keep some distance from delinquent kids (DQN, 5ch slang for lowlifes) from delinquent families is a real benefit of middle school entrance exams.
Getting to spend your formative years alongside decent peers and their parents matters a lot.
Getting to spend your formative years alongside decent peers and their parents matters a lot.
Re: #87
That's so true.
Going to a decently high-hensachi girls' school honestly saved my life.
That's so true.
Going to a decently high-hensachi girls' school honestly saved my life.
Re: #87
This is exactly my kid's situation.
Just doing her homework like normal got her mocked as a 'goody-goody' or a 'grind,' so she took the entrance exams to get away from public school.
This is exactly my kid's situation.
Just doing her homework like normal got her mocked as a 'goody-goody' or a 'grind,' so she took the entrance exams to get away from public school.
Re: #87
That just means you picked the wrong place to live.
You don't need a full-blown 'education district' — factor in things like several universities being nearby or the general vibe along the train line, and you can cut the odds a lot.
It won't hit zero, but plenty of above-average kids go to public school without bothering with entrance exams.
That just means you picked the wrong place to live.
You don't need a full-blown 'education district' — factor in things like several universities being nearby or the general vibe along the train line, and you can cut the odds a lot.
It won't hit zero, but plenty of above-average kids go to public school without bothering with entrance exams.
Families who even attempt middle school entrance exams already have a certain level of intelligence and financial means.
At public school you're forced to mix with the lower end too — that's just the risk.
At public school you're forced to mix with the lower end too — that's just the risk.
Re: #127
It's not that private integrated junior-senior high schools actually teach better content.
Not having to deal with the bottom-tier crowd — that's the only real benefit of private schools.
It's not that private integrated junior-senior high schools actually teach better content.
Not having to deal with the bottom-tier crowd — that's the only real benefit of private schools.
Re: #136
Really?
My parents also went to a private junior-senior high, and apparently a classmate was the daughter of a yakuza boss (893 = slang for yakuza).
Though I hear she was a really quiet girl.
Really?
My parents also went to a private junior-senior high, and apparently a classmate was the daughter of a yakuza boss (893 = slang for yakuza).
Though I hear she was a really quiet girl.
Re: #136
Seriously, public schools have parent-kid pairs that act like animals.
Elite high schools vary a lot in how much they actually teach, but even at hands-off schools kids study on their own or go to specialized cram schools, so it's not an issue.
Seriously, public schools have parent-kid pairs that act like animals.
Elite high schools vary a lot in how much they actually teach, but even at hands-off schools kids study on their own or go to specialized cram schools, so it's not an issue.
Re: #127
Going to public middle school, man…
it's nothing but bottom-tier trouble.
Like bullying in a club-activity LINE group chat — since you're in the same group, you as a parent get dragged in and told to come to the school, that kind of bottom-tier mess.
Going to public middle school, man…
it's nothing but bottom-tier trouble.
Like bullying in a club-activity LINE group chat — since you're in the same group, you as a parent get dragged in and told to come to the school, that kind of bottom-tier mess.
Re: #130
These days, fewer kids even join club activities.
With the falling birthrate and teachers' work-style reforms, there are fewer clubs to begin with.
These days, fewer kids even join club activities.
With the falling birthrate and teachers' work-style reforms, there are fewer clubs to begin with.
Re: #130
That happens at private schools too.
I've heard of cases where someone secretly filmed the changing room and the photos got shared — the whole group got expelled.
That happens at private schools too.
I've heard of cases where someone secretly filmed the changing room and the photos got shared — the whole group got expelled.
Re: #137
Sure, there might be trashy nouveau-riche kids too, but it's a matter of proportion.
It's nothing compared to public school.
Sure, there might be trashy nouveau-riche kids too, but it's a matter of proportion.
It's nothing compared to public school.
Re: #143
That totally depends on where you live.
That totally depends on where you live.
Re: #147
Is there really a region where the proportion of bottom-tier types doesn't differ much between private integrated schools and public school?
Is there really a region where the proportion of bottom-tier types doesn't differ much between private integrated schools and public school?
Re: #153
Aichi Prefecture doesn't have many private schools.
The top public schools send kids straight to Tokyo University and Kyoto University —
and there are several schools like that.
I myself could only get into a lower-ranked, second-tier school though.
Aichi Prefecture doesn't have many private schools.
The top public schools send kids straight to Tokyo University and Kyoto University —
and there are several schools like that.
I myself could only get into a lower-ranked, second-tier school though.
Re: #160
Aichi's not so bad since it has Tokai and Nanjo (Nanyo Girls').
I'm from Shizuoka, and honestly there isn't a single decent integrated junior-senior high school here, none at all.
In the western part of the prefecture, the golden route is Shizuoka University's affiliated middle school or a local public middle school, then on to Hamamatsu Kita High School.
I went that route myself, but I'm in the Kanto area now, so I had my own kid take the entrance exams.
Aichi's not so bad since it has Tokai and Nanjo (Nanyo Girls').
I'm from Shizuoka, and honestly there isn't a single decent integrated junior-senior high school here, none at all.
In the western part of the prefecture, the golden route is Shizuoka University's affiliated middle school or a local public middle school, then on to Hamamatsu Kita High School.
I went that route myself, but I'm in the Kanto area now, so I had my own kid take the entrance exams.
Re: #152
I just worked my butt off because I didn't want to get stuck on the escalator track into that school's affiliated university, lol.
But I built my study habits through the entrance-exam process, and I think that's helped me study for certification exams even as an adult.
The school I got into was a girls' school and it was a lot of fun, but I'm convinced that skipping the entrance exams doesn't mean you can't get into a good university or earn a high income.
I just worked my butt off because I didn't want to get stuck on the escalator track into that school's affiliated university, lol.
But I built my study habits through the entrance-exam process, and I think that's helped me study for certification exams even as an adult.
The school I got into was a girls' school and it was a lot of fun, but I'm convinced that skipping the entrance exams doesn't mean you can't get into a good university or earn a high income.
Re: #162
So are you going to have your own kid take the entrance exams?
So are you going to have your own kid take the entrance exams?
Re: #165
I have a kid in middle school now, and no, I didn't have them take the entrance exams.
They were doing sports in elementary school, so I didn't send them to cram school either.
They'll go to public high school too, and I want them to go to a national or public university.
I have a kid in middle school now, and no, I didn't have them take the entrance exams.
They were doing sports in elementary school, so I didn't send them to cram school either.
They'll go to public high school too, and I want them to go to a national or public university.
Re: #177
Sounds like the kind of family where the parent hovers over the kid's head like a helicopter.
Sounds like the kind of family where the parent hovers over the kid's head like a helicopter.
Re: #177
Same situation in my house.
I went to a decent integrated junior-senior high school myself, but I figured exam prep is a solo effort and my kid would eventually catch fire and do it on their own…
But that fire for studying never came,
and now they're telling me they want to go to some private university in the Kanto area, lol.
Well, they seem happy about it, so I guess it's fine.
Same situation in my house.
I went to a decent integrated junior-senior high school myself, but I figured exam prep is a solo effort and my kid would eventually catch fire and do it on their own…
But that fire for studying never came,
and now they're telling me they want to go to some private university in the Kanto area, lol.
Well, they seem happy about it, so I guess it's fine.
I'm a Tokyo University grad myself, but I'm convinced the reason none of Nada, Tsukukoma, Kaisei, or Azabu (Japan's top prep schools) have produced a Nobel laureate is that taking entrance exams locks your brain into convergent thinking.
Entrance exams are the root of stupidity.
Entrance exams are the root of stupidity.
Re: #168
Ryoji Noyori
Kobe University Elementary School → Nada Junior/Senior High → Kyoto University
Won the 2001 Nobel Prize in Chemistry.
Ryoji Noyori
Kobe University Elementary School → Nada Junior/Senior High → Kyoto University
Won the 2001 Nobel Prize in Chemistry.
Re: #168
Those schools only overtook Tokyo Metropolitan high schools after the school-grouping system was introduced — before that, the top students went to Hibiya High School, and in fact Susumu Tonegawa, a Hibiya alum, won a Nobel Prize.
If any of these schools are going to produce a Nobel laureate, age-wise it's still to come.
Those schools only overtook Tokyo Metropolitan high schools after the school-grouping system was introduced — before that, the top students went to Hibiya High School, and in fact Susumu Tonegawa, a Hibiya alum, won a Nobel Prize.
If any of these schools are going to produce a Nobel laureate, age-wise it's still to come.
Re: #168
Up through around the Ice Age generation (Japan's so-called 'lost generation,' who graduated into the brutal 1990s–2000s job market), Tokyo University had tons of kids who were basically baby monsters — like winners of some 'freak show of humans' contest.
But the Ice Age flattened everyone into playing it safe.
And it's only gotten smaller-scale since, needless to say.
Up through around the Ice Age generation (Japan's so-called 'lost generation,' who graduated into the brutal 1990s–2000s job market), Tokyo University had tons of kids who were basically baby monsters — like winners of some 'freak show of humans' contest.
But the Ice Age flattened everyone into playing it safe.
And it's only gotten smaller-scale since, needless to say.
If I were a middle schooler today, I'd go to a kosen (technical college).
Re: #172
Kosen grads struggle five years down the line.
Either you get treated the same as a high school grad when job hunting, or you have to pull off transferring into a university through a narrow gate.
Maybe it's because most companies don't actually want factory-floor-level skills at the level kosen grads offer.
Kosen grads struggle five years down the line.
Either you get treated the same as a high school grad when job hunting, or you have to pull off transferring into a university through a narrow gate.
Maybe it's because most companies don't actually want factory-floor-level skills at the level kosen grads offer.
Re: #176
I went to an info session recently.
Apparently kosen grads get something like an associate degree, so it's not the same as a high school diploma, and they said the university-transfer quota has been increasing too.
I went to an info session recently.
Apparently kosen grads get something like an associate degree, so it's not the same as a high school diploma, and they said the university-transfer quota has been increasing too.
Re: #184
I work at a major company, and I have two subordinates who came from kosen and transferred into university.
One went from Akashi Kosen to Kyoto University, the other from Ishikawa Kosen to Tohoku University.
I work at a major company, and I have two subordinates who came from kosen and transferred into university.
One went from Akashi Kosen to Kyoto University, the other from Ishikawa Kosen to Tohoku University.
Re: #184
That's just the official line.
In reality it's regarded as below a junior college, often mistaken by the public for a vocational school.
Even if the university-transfer quota has grown, it's not guaranteed admission for everyone.
Go in with your eyes open.
That's just the official line.
In reality it's regarded as below a junior college, often mistaken by the public for a vocational school.
Even if the university-transfer quota has grown, it's not guaranteed admission for everyone.
Go in with your eyes open.
Re: #179
You might not know this, but Aichi Prefecture has been setting up affiliated middle schools on the grounds of its top public high schools.
Other prefectures will probably copy this.
You might not know this, but Aichi Prefecture has been setting up affiliated middle schools on the grounds of its top public high schools.
Other prefectures will probably copy this.
Re: #187
That's a pattern doomed to fail.
It's already been proven in other prefectures that the 'attached' style of public integrated junior-senior high schools doesn't work well.
Tokyo and Kanagawa also originally had attached-style public integrated schools that kept taking high school applicants, but it went so poorly that they stopped high school admissions and switched to fully integrated schools.
If Aichi sticks with the attached style, it'll fail too.
That's a pattern doomed to fail.
It's already been proven in other prefectures that the 'attached' style of public integrated junior-senior high schools doesn't work well.
Tokyo and Kanagawa also originally had attached-style public integrated schools that kept taking high school applicants, but it went so poorly that they stopped high school admissions and switched to fully integrated schools.
If Aichi sticks with the attached style, it'll fail too.
Re: #196
Chiba Prefectural also set up middle schools, but the gap with Shibuya Makuhari just keeps widening.
It would've been better to scrap school districts like Tokyo and Kanagawa did, and pull in top performers through high school entrance exams instead.
Chiba Prefectural also set up middle schools, but the gap with Shibuya Makuhari just keeps widening.
It would've been better to scrap school districts like Tokyo and Kanagawa did, and pull in top performers through high school entrance exams instead.
Re: #196
You can't really say which is correct — the integrated junior-senior high model like in Kanto, or the high-school-focused model like in Osaka that gives public middle schoolers a fair shot.
Even Osaka's Ishin (Osaka Ishin no Kai, the region's dominant political party) hasn't gone and turned Kitano High School into an integrated junior-senior high school.
You can't really say which is correct — the integrated junior-senior high model like in Kanto, or the high-school-focused model like in Osaka that gives public middle schoolers a fair shot.
Even Osaka's Ishin (Osaka Ishin no Kai, the region's dominant political party) hasn't gone and turned Kitano High School into an integrated junior-senior high school.
Background and key points of this discussion
The eye-catching part of this survey is that “taking middle school entrance exams doesn’t guarantee a payoff in income.” But the original article alone doesn’t reveal the sampling method or statistical verification techniques, and skepticism about the small sample size ran deep on the thread. One thing worth noting: the university enrollment rate itself is reportedly higher among those who took entrance exams, so “no difference in income” doesn’t mean “no difference in educational background.” The discussion gradually shifted to whether the point of middle school entrance exams is income or choosing one’s social environment, with personal accounts of rough public middle schools running alongside counterarguments that the same problems crop up at private schools too. There were also comments about the success or failure of public integrated junior-senior high schools in Aichi and Chiba, pointing to regional differences that don’t fit a simple public-vs-private divide.
※This article is compiled as excerpts and a summary from the 5ch (News Speed+) thread “[Middle School Exams] Whether or Not You Took Middle School Entrance Exams Has ‘No Effect’ on Future Income — University Professor’s Survey“.
Leave a Reply