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As the remake of The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time draws attention, opinions have split on 5ch’s “Hardware/Industry (Geha)” board. The original is a 1998 Nintendo 64 title, the origin point of the traditional 3D Zelda format of clearing shrines and puzzle-filled dungeons. But since Breath of the Wild in 2017, the series has shifted toward open-world design, and more new fans have grown used to paragliding around rather than grinding through dungeons. In the thread, opinions clashed over a remake approach that only updates the graphics while keeping the original design intact — debating who the product is actually for, nostalgic veterans or newcomers, while comparing past sales figures and discussing hopes for the next entry.
What people said
I'll just say it: ever since Ocarina of Time, the Zelda series has had a history of declining sales.
For Japanese players, Zelda carries a lot of baggage — "you can't enjoy it if you're bad at action games," "you can't progress without solving strict puzzles," "the story's just boring to begin with."
The Ocarina of Time remake only polishes the visuals while leaving all those negatives exactly as they were.
For Japanese players, Zelda carries a lot of baggage — "you can't enjoy it if you're bad at action games," "you can't progress without solving strict puzzles," "the story's just boring to begin with."
The Ocarina of Time remake only polishes the visuals while leaving all those negatives exactly as they were.
I've only played Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom — the shrine puzzles were such a hassle that I looked up every single solution, so if this one's all about dungeons I might not enjoy it.
Also, I've gotten way too used to just paragliding everywhere.
Also, I've gotten way too used to just paragliding everywhere.
Re: #2
What do you mean "if it's all about dungeons" — Ocarina of Time IS all about dungeons.
What do you mean "if it's all about dungeons" — Ocarina of Time IS all about dungeons.
I'm honestly worried whether people can keep up with a game where you literally can't progress unless you solve the puzzles.
Re: #9
I have a feeling things like Dampé's grave-digging race are going to get made easier. Mini-games built into the main progression just don't land the same way they used to.
I have a feeling things like Dampé's grave-digging race are going to get made easier. Mini-games built into the main progression just don't land the same way they used to.
Re: #9
These days you can just look up the answer on your phone, so nobody actually gets stuck anymore.
These days you can just look up the answer on your phone, so nobody actually gets stuck anymore.
I don't get people who want a remake that turns into a completely different game.
Re: #17
I already know all the puzzle-dungeon tricks, so just having nicer graphics isn't nearly enough to get me to buy it again.
I already know all the puzzle-dungeon tricks, so just having nicer graphics isn't nearly enough to get me to buy it again.
Re: #43
And even calling the graphics "good" is more like "yeah, I guess this is about what you'd expect" level, so it doesn't build much hype… Though it seems like overseas fans still worship graphics a lot more.
And even calling the graphics "good" is more like "yeah, I guess this is about what you'd expect" level, so it doesn't build much hype… Though it seems like overseas fans still worship graphics a lot more.
Re: #43
Then just buy the new games instead. That's not a reason to turn a remake into a completely different game.
Then just buy the new games instead. That's not a reason to turn a remake into a completely different game.
Whenever someone makes sweeping claims like "Japanese people think X," it's usually a Square Enix fanboy.
Re: #18
Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy used to be beloved by the whole nation, so people who love those series end up assuming their own opinion represents all of Japan.
Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy used to be beloved by the whole nation, so people who love those series end up assuming their own opinion represents all of Japan.
I'm a little curious which direction the Zelda series goes from here — does it stay on the Breath of the Wild path, or go back to the classic, traditional Zelda formula?
Re: #40
For now they'll probably put out a Majora's Mask remake, then remake Wind Waker again so it looks like an actual moving anime.
For now they'll probably put out a Majora's Mask remake, then remake Wind Waker again so it looks like an actual moving anime.
But it's been three and a half years since Tears of the Kingdom, this year we get Ocarina of Time, next year probably Majora's Mask — at this rate, when is the next actual open-air-style game even coming? (゜д゜)
Tears of the Kingdom was announced just two years after Breath of the Wild, after all.
Tears of the Kingdom was announced just two years after Breath of the Wild, after all.
Re: #49
Something will probably drop to line up with the movie.
Something will probably drop to line up with the movie.
I beat Ocarina of Time on Wii U Virtual Console just a year ago, so obviously I have zero interest in buying this.
Honestly, I wish I'd never played the N64 version.
It was seriously painful.
The N64 controls were so bad that I barely made any progress.
Honestly, I wish I'd never played the N64 version.
It was seriously painful.
The N64 controls were so bad that I barely made any progress.
Re: #45
To be fair, there's precedent for this: adding back "things they wanted to do at the time but had to cut due to memory or schedule constraints" — like footage Nintendo showed at Spaceworld that never made it into the final game, or the Mirror Zelda (the whole game flipped, a Wind Waker pre-order bonus), or the changes to the Iron Boots mechanics and camera work in the 3DS version. That kind of thing is fair game.
To be fair, there's precedent for this: adding back "things they wanted to do at the time but had to cut due to memory or schedule constraints" — like footage Nintendo showed at Spaceworld that never made it into the final game, or the Mirror Zelda (the whole game flipped, a Wind Waker pre-order bonus), or the changes to the Iron Boots mechanics and camera work in the 3DS version. That kind of thing is fair game.
Re: #52
Stuff that existed mid-development but got cut from the final game is usually cut because it was boring in the first place, and if an idea was genuinely good but got dropped due to memory or deadline issues, it was almost certainly already reused in a later Zelda game after Majora's Mask — just think about it logically.
I can't say what's going on with Mirror Zelda specifically, but if we're just talking small quality-of-life tweaks like the 3DS version had, the Switch 2 version is doing that too, and that's beside the point here anyway.
Stuff that existed mid-development but got cut from the final game is usually cut because it was boring in the first place, and if an idea was genuinely good but got dropped due to memory or deadline issues, it was almost certainly already reused in a later Zelda game after Majora's Mask — just think about it logically.
I can't say what's going on with Mirror Zelda specifically, but if we're just talking small quality-of-life tweaks like the 3DS version had, the Switch 2 version is doing that too, and that's beside the point here anyway.
Why are people even discussing this on a dead forum like this instead of on X?
Re: #58
Come on, give it some credit for that. Seriously.
Come on, give it some credit for that. Seriously.
Fans genuinely want retro game revivals, and the hypocritical idea that classic game design should be erased for the sake of a new generation has already lost.
If you're going to keep milking a series that's decades old, failing to properly resupply the accurate history of the old games will just make even younger players see you as a scammer and damage trust in the series.
That's exactly why people bluntly say "this is a completely different game from what I saw in the footage."
If you're going to keep milking a series that's decades old, failing to properly resupply the accurate history of the old games will just make even younger players see you as a scammer and damage trust in the series.
That's exactly why people bluntly say "this is a completely different game from what I saw in the footage."
Re: #71
That only holds up if the sequels actually keep coming though. It's a problem if there's no new game and the series just stalls out on remakes.
That only holds up if the sequels actually keep coming though. It's a problem if there's no new game and the series just stalls out on remakes.
Star Fox is a perfect example of a series abandoned by both sides.
Actually, I don't think Star Fox even has any new fans on Switch 2.
Actually, I don't think Star Fox even has any new fans on Switch 2.
Re: #72
The characters were never all that popular to begin with, and demand for rail shooters has basically disappeared, so I think Star Fox fundamentally doesn't have much reason to exist anymore.
The characters were never all that popular to begin with, and demand for rail shooters has basically disappeared, so I think Star Fox fundamentally doesn't have much reason to exist anymore.
There's a fundamental question here: what is this Ocarina of Time remake even being released for?
If the question is whether you can't play it because it's an old game — no, you already can, via N64 Online.
If the question is whether newcomers will enjoy it — no, since the gameplay is still exactly as unforgiving as before.
If the question is whether nostalgic fans will enjoy it — the motivation to buy is thin, since basically only the graphics changed.
In the end, this remake exists on top of business-driven buzzwords like "we want a Zelda release in Switch's second year," "we want a Zelda out before the movie," and "the 40th anniversary" — but it was born out of compromises like "we want to keep the development budget down" and "we don't want to fully commit the 3D Zelda team's development pipeline to this."
We should take a hard, critical look and ask: is it really okay to settle for something this half-baked?
Because this will affect sales of the Majora's Mask remake waiting in the wings, and newcomers will just repeat history by concluding "Zelda isn't for me."
Not everything deserves blind praise just because it exists.
If the question is whether you can't play it because it's an old game — no, you already can, via N64 Online.
If the question is whether newcomers will enjoy it — no, since the gameplay is still exactly as unforgiving as before.
If the question is whether nostalgic fans will enjoy it — the motivation to buy is thin, since basically only the graphics changed.
In the end, this remake exists on top of business-driven buzzwords like "we want a Zelda release in Switch's second year," "we want a Zelda out before the movie," and "the 40th anniversary" — but it was born out of compromises like "we want to keep the development budget down" and "we don't want to fully commit the 3D Zelda team's development pipeline to this."
We should take a hard, critical look and ask: is it really okay to settle for something this half-baked?
Because this will affect sales of the Majora's Mask remake waiting in the wings, and newcomers will just repeat history by concluding "Zelda isn't for me."
Not everything deserves blind praise just because it exists.
Re: #81
Is it actually a bad thing to release a game timed to an anniversary?
Is it actually a bad thing to release a game timed to an anniversary?
Re: #81
TL;DR: "I'll be mad if it sells well."
TL;DR: "I'll be mad if it sells well."
Re: #81
> In the end, this remake exists on top of business-driven buzzwords like "we want a Zelda release in Switch's second year," "we want a Zelda out before the movie," and "the 40th anniversary"
> but it was born out of compromises like "we want to keep the development budget down" and "we don't want to fully commit the 3D Zelda team's development pipeline to this"
Is that just your personal take? You don't actually have a source for any of that, do you.
> In the end, this remake exists on top of business-driven buzzwords like "we want a Zelda release in Switch's second year," "we want a Zelda out before the movie," and "the 40th anniversary"
> but it was born out of compromises like "we want to keep the development budget down" and "we don't want to fully commit the 3D Zelda team's development pipeline to this"
Is that just your personal take? You don't actually have a source for any of that, do you.
How was it received back when it came out on 3DS?
Re: #90
The general take was "oh yeah, this is about what I remembered the graphics looking like" — even though it was actually made quite a bit prettier.
The general take was "oh yeah, this is about what I remembered the graphics looking like" — even though it was actually made quite a bit prettier.
With Star Fox, I just couldn't physically stand the realistic-animal-puppet-show character designs.
I think it would've worked better if they'd been human.
I think it would've worked better if they'd been human.
Re: #98
With Star Fox, the characters ended up looking like completely different characters, and I thought that showed a total lack of taste.
With Star Fox, the characters ended up looking like completely different characters, and I thought that showed a total lack of taste.
There's a foreign YouTuber who's a huge Zelda fan, and he flat-out said he hates Breath of the Wild — that Breath of the Wild killed Zelda.
Open world isn't the only thing people want from Zelda.
Though I doubt the bandwagon fans who got into Zelda through Breath of the Wild would understand that.
Open world isn't the only thing people want from Zelda.
Though I doubt the bandwagon fans who got into Zelda through Breath of the Wild would understand that.
Re: #106
If anything, ever since A Link to the Past, the series kept neglecting the fun, go-anywhere freedom of the very first Zelda game, and Breath of the Wild finally felt like it brought that back to life — reborn, even.
What died wasn't Zelda. I think it was just the Ocarina of Time formula, which is only one facet of what Zelda is.
If anything, ever since A Link to the Past, the series kept neglecting the fun, go-anywhere freedom of the very first Zelda game, and Breath of the Wild finally felt like it brought that back to life — reborn, even.
What died wasn't Zelda. I think it was just the Ocarina of Time formula, which is only one facet of what Zelda is.
Re: #106
That's just personal taste though.
That's just personal taste though.
Re: #106
Isn't it more accurate to say the dungeon-puzzle format that started with Ocarina of Time just got stale and stopped being in demand?
Even Ocarina of Time, which gets treated like a sacred cow, sold less than half of what Breath of the Wild did domestically, and its follow-up Majora's Mask sold shockingly poorly.
Isn't it more accurate to say the dungeon-puzzle format that started with Ocarina of Time just got stale and stopped being in demand?
Even Ocarina of Time, which gets treated like a sacred cow, sold less than half of what Breath of the Wild did domestically, and its follow-up Majora's Mask sold shockingly poorly.
Background and Key Points of This Debate
Ocarina of Time is a Nintendo 64 title released in 1998, and its structure of clearing shrines and dungeons through puzzle-solving went on to serve as the basic format for 3D Zelda games for a long time afterward. Since Breath of the Wild in 2017, the series has shifted toward open-world design, and the number of new fans unfamiliar with the puzzle-focused older titles has grown. What split opinion in the thread was whether a remake that only updates the visuals while leaving the old design untouched should be seen as “staying faithful to existing fans,” or as “a missed opportunity to bring in new players.” It’s worth noting that posts about development budget and direction (such as claims that the team “wants to keep costs down”) are speculation from within the thread, not anything confirmed by an official Nintendo announcement. Points were also raised that domestic sales of Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask were lower than titles from Breath of the Wild onward, suggesting the criteria used to judge the series has shifted from game to game.
*This article is compiled from excerpts and a summary of the 5ch (Hardware/Industry [Geha]) thread “Newcomers who started with Breath of the Wild won’t enjoy buying the Ocarina of Time remake.”
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