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The story
A post titled “Why don’t Japanese car companies hurry up and develop self-driving cars already?” appeared on 5ch’s Nyuusoku VIP board and drew a flood of responses. The discussion centered on where liability falls in an accident — commenters noted that Japan’s regulatory approach is moving toward holding the person in the driver’s seat responsible, rather than the manufacturer, with some arguing this would keep the technology from ever catching on. Posters raised both reasons development is lagging — Japan’s narrow roads and low speed limits — and reasons it’s urgently needed, like the driver shortage reflected in shrinking bus schedules. In the end, opinions never converged.
What people said
Aren't they worried, watching the US and China roll this out?
If the driver gets blamed whenever there's an accident, then what's even the point?
And if it's the manufacturer's fault instead, China or the US would probably just shrug it off as "well, these things happen" —
but with how nasty and petty Japanese people can be, they'd turn it into a huge scandal.
And if it's the manufacturer's fault instead, China or the US would probably just shrug it off as "well, these things happen" —
but with how nasty and petty Japanese people can be, they'd turn it into a huge scandal.
Re: #12
If it's the manufacturer's fault, the US would actually take a bigger hit —
they got slapped with a ¥3 billion payout just because someone burned themselves on McDonald's coffee.
If it's the manufacturer's fault, the US would actually take a bigger hit —
they got slapped with a ¥3 billion payout just because someone burned themselves on McDonald's coffee.
Don't worry about it — even US and Chinese self-driving cars couldn't handle Japan's narrow streets anyway.
Re: #14
The road conditions are just too different?
The road conditions are just too different?
There's no way Japan can pull this off — Japanese companies are terrible at software.
Re: #16
Yeah, that tracks — this is the country that couldn't even make an iPhone.
Yeah, that tracks — this is the country that couldn't even make an iPhone.
Self-driving's already come a long way though
parking is basically one-touch now.
parking is basically one-touch now.
Re: #19
There's still no car that can take you wherever you want with zero driver, though.
There's still no car that can take you wherever you want with zero driver, though.
https://youtu.be/vAzS2uSNDYA?si=HCkgIT11I8_7JqYM
Look, it can even handle Japan's narrow streets.
Look, it can even handle Japan's narrow streets.
Re: #22
No it can't.
It only handles big roads and situations where crawling along is expected.
It can't handle the roads that make up most of Japan — single lane each way but a 40 or 50 km/h speed limit.
Just put one moped in front of it and the whole thing falls apart.
No it can't.
It only handles big roads and situations where crawling along is expected.
It can't handle the roads that make up most of Japan — single lane each way but a 40 or 50 km/h speed limit.
Just put one moped in front of it and the whole thing falls apart.
Self-driving companies are actually the hottest thing in Japanese stocks right now.
If you're saying this without knowing about Dynamic Map Platform or Tier IV, that's embarrassing.
If you're saying this without knowing about Dynamic Map Platform or Tier IV, that's embarrassing.
Re: #28
Japan's still massively behind though.
Japan's still massively behind though.
Re: #28
They're not "hot" at all, and those companies barely register — no way they're taking over the industry.
They're not "hot" at all, and those companies barely register — no way they're taking over the industry.
When a human causes an accident, it's just bad luck.
When self-driving causes one, it's a scandal.
When self-driving causes one, it's a scandal.
Re: #49
In Japan, even for self-driving cars, the plan is to make the person sitting in the driver's seat — or wherever they could hit the emergency brake — take responsibility.
In Japan, even for self-driving cars, the plan is to make the person sitting in the driver's seat — or wherever they could hit the emergency brake — take responsibility.
Re: #54
Well then it's never going to catch on, is it.
Well then it's never going to catch on, is it.
Re: #54
That just makes the driver a lab rat.
That just makes the driver a lab rat.
Do we even need self-driving in the first place?
Re: #69
Of course we do.
For industry, there's a labor shortage.
For regular people it's just easier, and it eliminates mistakes that come from manual driving.
Most accidents are human error anyway.
Of course we do.
For industry, there's a labor shortage.
For regular people it's just easier, and it eliminates mistakes that come from manual driving.
Most accidents are human error anyway.
Re: #69
Cutting driver labor costs would bring taxi fares down.
Cutting driver labor costs would bring taxi fares down.
Re: #71
"Fewer workers means lower prices" is a fantasy.
Name one thing that got cheaper because of a labor shortage.
Re: #72
Automation already exists in things like factory line-tracing or mining dump trucks.
I work in the auto industry, so I know automatic braking has definitely cut down on regular accidents,
but avoiding accidents at the margins really comes down to human prediction and judgment calls —
automating it as things stand now is still going to produce plenty of errors…
What needs fixing isn't the cars, it's the roads.
"Fewer workers means lower prices" is a fantasy.
Name one thing that got cheaper because of a labor shortage.
Re: #72
Automation already exists in things like factory line-tracing or mining dump trucks.
I work in the auto industry, so I know automatic braking has definitely cut down on regular accidents,
but avoiding accidents at the margins really comes down to human prediction and judgment calls —
automating it as things stand now is still going to produce plenty of errors…
What needs fixing isn't the cars, it's the roads.
Re: #86
Yeah, until someone deals with the chaotic road layouts, it's just not happening.
Basically what you're saying is Japan needs to redo its urban planning and rebuild entire towns.
Yeah, until someone deals with the chaotic road layouts, it's just not happening.
Basically what you're saying is Japan needs to redo its urban planning and rebuild entire towns.
Re: #86
It's not about cheap versus expensive.
Companies are going bankrupt because they can't secure workers, and that's hitting the economy hard.
And the labor shortage can't be solved without bringing in a huge number of immigrants.
Back in 2000, seniors made up one-sixth of the working-age population.
Now it's one-third, and in 30 years it's projected to be nearly half.
The shortfall will hit 10 million workers before long.
Even Tokyo's bus services have cut over 100 routes due to driver shortages.
This is a genuinely serious situation.
It's not about cheap versus expensive.
Companies are going bankrupt because they can't secure workers, and that's hitting the economy hard.
And the labor shortage can't be solved without bringing in a huge number of immigrants.
Back in 2000, seniors made up one-sixth of the working-age population.
Now it's one-third, and in 30 years it's projected to be nearly half.
The shortfall will hit 10 million workers before long.
Even Tokyo's bus services have cut over 100 routes due to driver shortages.
This is a genuinely serious situation.
Re: #71
Even in the US it's sometimes a bit cheaper, sometimes pricier, depending on the case,
so in Japan it'll probably end up more expensive if anything.
Either way, a new service in Japan never comes out cheaper — that's just how it's always been.
Even in the US it's sometimes a bit cheaper, sometimes pricier, depending on the case,
so in Japan it'll probably end up more expensive if anything.
Either way, a new service in Japan never comes out cheaper — that's just how it's always been.
Re: #76
Oh, it's not cheaper?
Is that just because it's still in the testing phase?
Oh, it's not cheaper?
Is that just because it's still in the testing phase?
Re: #76
Japan's labor shortage is serious, and especially in jobs that require certifications,
what little talent exists flows toward competitive big companies.
Small and midsize businesses can't secure workers and are going bankrupt one after another.
The logistics sector is in really bad shape.
Japan's labor shortage is serious, and especially in jobs that require certifications,
what little talent exists flows toward competitive big companies.
Small and midsize businesses can't secure workers and are going bankrupt one after another.
The logistics sector is in really bad shape.
Re: #86
Simple as that — the amount of work just goes down.
Simple as that — the amount of work just goes down.
Re: #89
If you were the one running the company, would you cut labor costs and then turn around and shrink your own profits? Come on.
Re: #91
I've actually tried Tesla's Autopilot in Tokyo, and it lost track of the lane even at a curving intersection.
Out in the countryside the road surface is bad and the white lines are faded or gone in a lot of places — that needs fixing first.
Re: #92
"Labor shortage" just means a shortage of "cheap labor," doesn't it?
If the population is shrinking and drivers are decreasing, then riders must be decreasing too.
I don't know if cutting 100 routes overnight means riders are now overflowing, but just adding supply doesn't mean anything.
Besides, in Tokyo the trains and taxis are already packed.
What's actually needed first is better pay for drivers.
If you were the one running the company, would you cut labor costs and then turn around and shrink your own profits? Come on.
Re: #91
I've actually tried Tesla's Autopilot in Tokyo, and it lost track of the lane even at a curving intersection.
Out in the countryside the road surface is bad and the white lines are faded or gone in a lot of places — that needs fixing first.
Re: #92
"Labor shortage" just means a shortage of "cheap labor," doesn't it?
If the population is shrinking and drivers are decreasing, then riders must be decreasing too.
I don't know if cutting 100 routes overnight means riders are now overflowing, but just adding supply doesn't mean anything.
Besides, in Tokyo the trains and taxis are already packed.
What's actually needed first is better pay for drivers.
Re: #98
But if you lower the price, wouldn't sales and profit go up too?
But if you lower the price, wouldn't sales and profit go up too?
Re: #100
That kind of price war, combined with pressure from insurance companies, is exactly what's made the entire auto-repair industry poor and short-staffed.
And it's not just repair shops — if being cheap and pulling in customers actually meant profit, every non-discount chain would've died out by now, every supermarket in Japan would be a My Basket (a discount supermarket chain), and every barbershop would be a ¥1,000 quick-cut place.
The reality is that customers who show up for cheapness don't actually make you money.
That kind of price war, combined with pressure from insurance companies, is exactly what's made the entire auto-repair industry poor and short-staffed.
And it's not just repair shops — if being cheap and pulling in customers actually meant profit, every non-discount chain would've died out by now, every supermarket in Japan would be a My Basket (a discount supermarket chain), and every barbershop would be a ¥1,000 quick-cut place.
The reality is that customers who show up for cheapness don't actually make you money.
Re: #100
So you're saying that just leaves us with a society where only the corporations profit and employees get nothing out of it.
So you're saying that just leaves us with a society where only the corporations profit and employees get nothing out of it.
It's not just self-driving — Japan has an extremely strong tendency to avoid any worst-case "just in case" scenario.
America, on the other hand, is the country of "sacrifices are just part of scientific progress, desu" (a mocking, deliberately stilted phrase poking fun at the American attitude).
I don't think either one is "right" —
Japanese cars are famous for not breaking down, America leads in self-driving — each is just playing to its own strengths.
America, on the other hand, is the country of "sacrifices are just part of scientific progress, desu" (a mocking, deliberately stilted phrase poking fun at the American attitude).
I don't think either one is "right" —
Japanese cars are famous for not breaking down, America leads in self-driving — each is just playing to its own strengths.
Re: #101
Given how competitive things are now, I feel like Japan can't really afford to keep saying that anymore.
Given how competitive things are now, I feel like Japan can't really afford to keep saying that anymore.
Re: #101
Excessive safety standards.
Excessive quality.
That's exactly what caused Japan's decline.
And these days Japan isn't even at the top of the world in quality anymore —
in plenty of fields it's fallen behind due to lack of technology.
A big part of that comes down to a shortage of engineers and the broader economic impact.
Excessive safety standards.
Excessive quality.
That's exactly what caused Japan's decline.
And these days Japan isn't even at the top of the world in quality anymore —
in plenty of fields it's fallen behind due to lack of technology.
A big part of that comes down to a shortage of engineers and the broader economic impact.
Re: #108
Well, wages are inching up little by little, but they're trailing way behind price increases, so it's not like life's actually getting easier…
That's why there are so many contract-based rehires and elderly workers now, plus short-term gig work through apps like Timee.
And with buses, the problem is wages are way too low compared to the cost of getting a Class 2 large-vehicle license.
Apparently driving tour buses pays something like ¥300,000-400,000 a month, so people go that route instead.
Well, wages are inching up little by little, but they're trailing way behind price increases, so it's not like life's actually getting easier…
That's why there are so many contract-based rehires and elderly workers now, plus short-term gig work through apps like Timee.
And with buses, the problem is wages are way too low compared to the cost of getting a Class 2 large-vehicle license.
Apparently driving tour buses pays something like ¥300,000-400,000 a month, so people go that route instead.
Re: #112
At the end of the day, someone needs to cure companies of their deflation addiction.
At the end of the day, someone needs to cure companies of their deflation addiction.
Workers who make up the labor force are also consumers of everything — they ARE the demand.
If they can't earn properly, population and demand will never grow.
So what's the point of cutting the very workers who generate demand, through foreign labor or automation?
A lot of people saying "cut civil servants' pay" don't get this either.
Re: #116
Small and midsize companies founded in the late Showa to early Heisei era are about due to pass to a second or third-generation owner, age-wise.
Whether the ones running things like slave labor actually improve remains to be seen.
For big companies, that's probably a tough ask.
If they can't earn properly, population and demand will never grow.
So what's the point of cutting the very workers who generate demand, through foreign labor or automation?
A lot of people saying "cut civil servants' pay" don't get this either.
Re: #116
Small and midsize companies founded in the late Showa to early Heisei era are about due to pass to a second or third-generation owner, age-wise.
Whether the ones running things like slave labor actually improve remains to be seen.
For big companies, that's probably a tough ask.
Re: #118
There's no realistic prospect of the working-age population growing in any developed country.
To begin with, changing lifestyles in developed nations brought greater wealth, more women entering the workforce, and later marriage as a result.
The data also shows that later marriage brings down the birth rate.
The only developed country where the population keeps growing — and is projected to keep growing — is the immigration powerhouse that is the United States.
America's real GDP will stay decisively No. 1.
Even in India, birth rates among the wealthy are starting to fall.
China's population is expected to drop sharply going forward.
An economy runs on people, and on the movement of people.
Business scales up too — from within a prefecture to nationwide, from nationwide to global.
A certain amount of foreign labor is essential.
On top of that, we have no choice but to cover the rest with AI.
There's no realistic prospect of the working-age population growing in any developed country.
To begin with, changing lifestyles in developed nations brought greater wealth, more women entering the workforce, and later marriage as a result.
The data also shows that later marriage brings down the birth rate.
The only developed country where the population keeps growing — and is projected to keep growing — is the immigration powerhouse that is the United States.
America's real GDP will stay decisively No. 1.
Even in India, birth rates among the wealthy are starting to fall.
China's population is expected to drop sharply going forward.
An economy runs on people, and on the movement of people.
Business scales up too — from within a prefecture to nationwide, from nationwide to global.
A certain amount of foreign labor is essential.
On top of that, we have no choice but to cover the rest with AI.
Building office towers and high-rise condos pushes GDP up, you know.
That's exactly how China's GDP went up — and since nobody's actually living in a lot of those buildings, it's already expected to come back down.
That's exactly how China's GDP went up — and since nobody's actually living in a lot of those buildings, it's already expected to come back down.
Re: #125
But China's got EVs just sitting abandoned everywhere, and building prices have crashed to 30% of what they were — that's a massive recession.
But China's got EVs just sitting abandoned everywhere, and building prices have crashed to 30% of what they were — that's a massive recession.
Re: #125
Even a kid knows the US economy is the center of the world.
It's on a completely different scale than Japan.
Even a kid knows the US economy is the center of the world.
It's on a completely different scale than Japan.
Background and Key Points of This Discussion
When it comes to the legal framework around self-driving cars, discussion in Japan has been trending toward holding the human monitoring the vehicle responsible for accidents — a premise that differs fundamentally from the US model, where the manufacturer bears the risk. This difference in liability structure came up in the thread as one answer to the question of “why isn’t Japan hurrying up with development.” At the same time, the idea that “Japan isn’t doing anything” is a misconception — domestic self-driving-related companies like Tier IV and Dynamic Map Platform are drawing real attention on the stock market, meaning development is very much underway, just at a different scale and pace than in the US or China. Another key point raised was that self-driving is being discussed not simply as a convenience, but as a response to the structural labor shortage symbolized by shrinking bus schedules — and opinions on whether the cost-cutting angle is justified never quite lined up by the end.
*This article is excerpted and summarized from the 5ch (Nyuusoku VIP) thread “Why don’t Japanese car companies hurry up and develop self-driving cars already?.”
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