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The story
A Yahoo! News article titled “It Was Only Natural That Japanese Anime Stopped Being Made For Japanese People” sparked debate on 5ch’s Hardware/Industry (Geha) board. The piece pointed out that isekai (otherworld-reincarnation) shows now dominate the “new releases” section of streaming services, but thread posters split into two camps: one arguing that naro-kei works (originating from the novel site “Shousetsuka ni Narou”) are actually national hits that rank near the top of domestic ratings, and another suggesting the industry is shifting toward a model where shows are made for overseas audiences first, with Japanese viewers catching up afterward. Some pointed to a similar overseas shift that already happened in the game industry, framing it as a broader change in industry structure.
It Was Only Natural That Japanese Anime Stopped Being Made For Japanese People… The “Real Reason,” Which Is Neither the Original Author’s Fault Nor the Viewers’
Bookstores and streaming services are currently flooded with titles categorized as “isekai reincarnation.”
The “new releases” section of video streaming services is packed with keywords like “reincarnation,” “overpowered protagonist,” “banishment,” “villainess,” and “slow living.”
Source: news.yahoo.co.jp / Read the original article here
What people said
What are you even talking about? There's no Japanese anime actually being MADE for overseas audiences. This is just the same content-business model as old-school Japanese games back in the day — make it for Japanese fans, and it happens to sell overseas too. If you want to blame the production committees' circumstances, fine, that tracks — but how do you explain the flood of duds coming out that don't even look interesting?
Re: #3
Probably because game publishers are already like that, and someone who saw it discussed in threads like this one figured "alright, guess I'll write an anime article too."
I've seen videos pop up in my recommendations covering game topics that only I had written about — for games I really like, I deliberately post my unique takes late, because if a detailed video comes out around the same time, nobody can tell whether the creator noticed it independently or just copied me. I don't mind them making videos out of it — we do the same thing, using videos as material — I just hate when they act all smug like they figured it out themselves.
I don't watch anime, but going by what gets posted and discussed on 5ch, that doesn't match my impression at all.
Probably because game publishers are already like that, and someone who saw it discussed in threads like this one figured "alright, guess I'll write an anime article too."
I've seen videos pop up in my recommendations covering game topics that only I had written about — for games I really like, I deliberately post my unique takes late, because if a detailed video comes out around the same time, nobody can tell whether the creator noticed it independently or just copied me. I don't mind them making videos out of it — we do the same thing, using videos as material — I just hate when they act all smug like they figured it out themselves.
I don't watch anime, but going by what gets posted and discussed on 5ch, that doesn't match my impression at all.
Re: #3 Re: #17
Unfortunately, the same thing is happening with anime.
No, actually it's even worse with anime.
Time to face reality.
Unfortunately, the same thing is happening with anime.
No, actually it's even worse with anime.
Time to face reality.
Re: #3
Anime made for overseas audiences is already becoming the mainstream. We're heading into an era where shows made for foreign viewers become hits in Japan. It's not about the production committees' convenience — it's about reality's convenience. Even the production committees can't fight it. Foreigners will love it even if it's garbage.
Anime made for overseas audiences is already becoming the mainstream. We're heading into an era where shows made for foreign viewers become hits in Japan. It's not about the production committees' convenience — it's about reality's convenience. Even the production committees can't fight it. Foreigners will love it even if it's garbage.
Whatever happens in the game industry tends to hit other subculture industries later on.
That reminds me of something Ubisoft CEO Yves Guillemot said in a Famitsu interview: "Watching Japan makes me a little worried, because Japan tends to be ahead of the curve — things that happen in Japan have often ended up happening worldwide 10 or 15 years later."
The anime industry should take that as a cautionary tale, like Square Enix's "overseas sickness" (kaigai byou, its overseas-market obsession). Even if it's profitable right now, eventually other countries will start making their own "Japanese-anime-style" anime, settle into a domestic production-and-consumption loop, and Japanese anime will get left out in the cold. Just like how Japanese JRPGs had a solid following in China — until Chinese-made Genshin Impact showed up and stole all the attention.
That reminds me of something Ubisoft CEO Yves Guillemot said in a Famitsu interview: "Watching Japan makes me a little worried, because Japan tends to be ahead of the curve — things that happen in Japan have often ended up happening worldwide 10 or 15 years later."
The anime industry should take that as a cautionary tale, like Square Enix's "overseas sickness" (kaigai byou, its overseas-market obsession). Even if it's profitable right now, eventually other countries will start making their own "Japanese-anime-style" anime, settle into a domestic production-and-consumption loop, and Japanese anime will get left out in the cold. Just like how Japanese JRPGs had a solid following in China — until Chinese-made Genshin Impact showed up and stole all the attention.
Re: #5
As for content (cartoons) that can actually compete with Japanese anime, right now it's basically just Disney and Marvel. Stuff coming out of other countries can't even become hits in their own countries… Webtoons got hyped up so much, but there's barely any streaming platforms left carrying them. As for characters, Labubu is supposedly a hit, but the scale is way too small next to Japan.
As for content (cartoons) that can actually compete with Japanese anime, right now it's basically just Disney and Marvel. Stuff coming out of other countries can't even become hits in their own countries… Webtoons got hyped up so much, but there's barely any streaming platforms left carrying them. As for characters, Labubu is supposedly a hit, but the scale is way too small next to Japan.
Re: #5
I don't think it's really because of Genshin Impact — I think "JRPG-flavored JRPGs" just narrowed down to basically the Trails (Kiseki) series. And Trails still has a solid following in China.
I don't think it's really because of Genshin Impact — I think "JRPG-flavored JRPGs" just narrowed down to basically the Trails (Kiseki) series. And Trails still has a solid following in China.
Re: #5
Sony's already doing it, so of course [the anime industry] is going to make the same mistake.
Sony's already doing it, so of course [the anime industry] is going to make the same mistake.
I don't see how "Yani Neko" (literally "nicotine-stain cat," a viral meme clip) was made with overseas audiences in mind, though.
Re: #7
That's just one of those Gintama gross-out-joke compilation videos.
That's just one of those Gintama gross-out-joke compilation videos.
If it's not being made for a Japanese audience, the theme songs should be Western pop by now, shouldn't they?
Re: #10
Foreigners just aren't that interested in the theme songs.
Foreigners just aren't that interested in the theme songs.
Re: #10
Wanna talk about the Kaiju No. 8 anime, based on the Shonen Jump manga?
Wanna talk about the Kaiju No. 8 anime, based on the Shonen Jump manga?
Re: #9
> Stuff coming out of other countries can't even become hits in their own countries… Webtoons got hyped up so much, but there's barely any streaming platforms left carrying them.
It was like that before Genshin Impact showed up too. People used to make a fuss calling Chinese games rip-offs of Japanese anime. Small-scale Chinese anime-style games were already popping up here and there even before miHoYo's Genshin. Markets are always changing.
> Stuff coming out of other countries can't even become hits in their own countries… Webtoons got hyped up so much, but there's barely any streaming platforms left carrying them.
It was like that before Genshin Impact showed up too. People used to make a fuss calling Chinese games rip-offs of Japanese anime. Small-scale Chinese anime-style games were already popping up here and there even before miHoYo's Genshin. Markets are always changing.
Re: #11
Genshin had zero real influence. JRPGs just flopped on their own. The studios that flopped aren't making them anymore, but the ones that didn't flop are still making them — Genshin or no Genshin.
Genshin had zero real influence. JRPGs just flopped on their own. The studios that flopped aren't making them anymore, but the ones that didn't flop are still making them — Genshin or no Genshin.
Re: #11
As for games: Japanese publishers stopped making traditional-style Japanese games, and that's exactly the gap hardcore overseas fans of Japanese games are filling — making titles premised on Japanese, without changing the essence of what made Japanese games great. And they're ruthless about cutting anything that won't sell. Japanese companies just can't do that (it's baffling why they won't).
Nobody in anime or manga has that same level of dedication (it's not that such people don't exist, and I do root for them, but they inevitably get buried in the domestic market).
As for games: Japanese publishers stopped making traditional-style Japanese games, and that's exactly the gap hardcore overseas fans of Japanese games are filling — making titles premised on Japanese, without changing the essence of what made Japanese games great. And they're ruthless about cutting anything that won't sell. Japanese companies just can't do that (it's baffling why they won't).
Nobody in anime or manga has that same level of dedication (it's not that such people don't exist, and I do root for them, but they inevitably get buried in the domestic market).
It's often said that the biggest reason so many naro-kei novels keep getting adapted into anime is simply that they're genuinely popular overseas.
Re: #12
This.
At the end of the day, people here just don't want to face reality.
This.
At the end of the day, people here just don't want to face reality.
I mean, the people who cry "old media bad" while gleefully hyping up foreign streaming services kind of come off as selling out their own country, don't they.
Re: #16
Aside from Niconico, isn't Abema basically the only Japanese streaming service left?
Aside from Niconico, isn't Abema basically the only Japanese streaming service left?
Naro-kei is already a national anime, though —
Sazae-san 6.8
Detective Conan 5.9
Chibi Maruko-chan 4.1
That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime 3.5 ← naro-kei
Doraemon 3.2
Crayon Shin-chan 3.1
The Middle-Aged Man Who Became a Sword Saint 2.6 ← naro-kei
Ascendance of a Bookworm: Adopted Daughter of an Archduke 2.6 ← naro-kei
Detective PreCure! 2.3
One Piece 2.3
Sazae-san 6.8
Detective Conan 5.9
Chibi Maruko-chan 4.1
That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime 3.5 ← naro-kei
Doraemon 3.2
Crayon Shin-chan 3.1
The Middle-Aged Man Who Became a Sword Saint 2.6 ← naro-kei
Ascendance of a Bookworm: Adopted Daughter of an Archduke 2.6 ← naro-kei
Detective PreCure! 2.3
One Piece 2.3
Re: #19
The thing is, "isekai" is basically Japanese-coined English that's caught on overseas as-is. And since this year, there's been a flood of "dungeon livestream" shows piling on, which makes the whole boom feel even more off.
The thing is, "isekai" is basically Japanese-coined English that's caught on overseas as-is. And since this year, there's been a flood of "dungeon livestream" shows piling on, which makes the whole boom feel even more off.
Re: #19
Sounds like you don't even know where "naro" comes from. You otaku guys borrow terms from other fields for both games and anime, but you use them without understanding what they actually mean.
Sounds like you don't even know where "naro" comes from. You otaku guys borrow terms from other fields for both games and anime, but you use them without understanding what they actually mean.
Re: #19
That has nothing to do with naro-kei at all lol.
Do you even know what "naro" means???
That has nothing to do with naro-kei at all lol.
Do you even know what "naro" means???
Naruto and Dragon Ball are both huge overseas too — this article is already proof the writer's just run out of ideas.
Re: #24
That's not the point. The point is that the industry's business model itself is shifting to being overseas-first.
That's not the point. The point is that the industry's business model itself is shifting to being overseas-first.
Well, it's basically a given at this point that AI will soon be able to generate Japanese-style anime at ultra-low cost anyway…
Re: #26
The most essential part is something AI simply can't do (I'm personally convinced of this), so the difficulty of overseas creators breaking down Japanese anime's fortress hasn't changed one bit. If it were actually possible, we'd already be seeing works by overseas authors getting attention on Naro (Shousetsuka ni Narou) first.
Though on the plus side, it might at least help weed out the most brutally exploitative animators and studios.
The most essential part is something AI simply can't do (I'm personally convinced of this), so the difficulty of overseas creators breaking down Japanese anime's fortress hasn't changed one bit. If it were actually possible, we'd already be seeing works by overseas authors getting attention on Naro (Shousetsuka ni Narou) first.
Though on the plus side, it might at least help weed out the most brutally exploitative animators and studios.
This reads like it was written by some cranky otaku who just can't accept modern anime, but kids today — heck, even middle-aged guys — enjoy isekai anime just fine. If anything, Japan is probably the country that loves isekai anime the most. There are probably several reasons, but one is that since it's built on game-world logic, the setting is easy to grasp. Japanese people love fantasy RPGs — not the gritty, low-fantasy style popular overseas, but the distinctly Japanese-flavored high fantasy — so of course anime based on that appeals to Japanese audiences. Except maybe to a handful of nostalgia-obsessed or cranky otaku.
Re: #32
You're not seeing the whole picture. Liking isekai and having ONLY isekai as your taste are two different things.
And honestly, the current trend looks more like Japanese viewers watching isekai shows that were made for overseas audiences, right alongside them.
You're not seeing the whole picture. Liking isekai and having ONLY isekai as your taste are two different things.
And honestly, the current trend looks more like Japanese viewers watching isekai shows that were made for overseas audiences, right alongside them.
Re: #32
You're not seeing the whole picture. Liking isekai and having ONLY isekai as your taste are two different things.
And honestly, the current trend looks more like Japanese viewers also watching isekai shows that were made for overseas audiences.
You're not seeing the whole picture. Liking isekai and having ONLY isekai as your taste are two different things.
And honestly, the current trend looks more like Japanese viewers also watching isekai shows that were made for overseas audiences.
Mega Man Battle Network (Rockman EXE)
Digimon
Web Diver
Collector Yui
.hack series
Sword Art Online
Gundam Build Divers, Gundam Build Divers Re:RISE, Gundam Build Metaverse (Gundam Build series)
Yu-Gi-Oh! VRAINS
Super Kaguya-hime!
Belle (Ryuu to Sobakasu no Hime)
PriPara, Idol Time PriPara, Secret x Aipuri, Onegai Aipuri (Pretty series)
Princess Connect
SSSS.GRIDMAN, Gridman Universe
Princession Orchestra
None of these could have gotten anywhere near this popular if they'd been isekai.
Digimon
Web Diver
Collector Yui
.hack series
Sword Art Online
Gundam Build Divers, Gundam Build Divers Re:RISE, Gundam Build Metaverse (Gundam Build series)
Yu-Gi-Oh! VRAINS
Super Kaguya-hime!
Belle (Ryuu to Sobakasu no Hime)
PriPara, Idol Time PriPara, Secret x Aipuri, Onegai Aipuri (Pretty series)
Princess Connect
SSSS.GRIDMAN, Gridman Universe
Princession Orchestra
None of these could have gotten anywhere near this popular if they'd been isekai.
Re: #74
The point is about the makers of those shows, or their rights, getting bought up [by foreign capital].
The point is about the makers of those shows, or their rights, getting bought up [by foreign capital].
Re: #95
Out of the list in Re: #74, how many of those franchises actually got their rights bought out by a Chinese company and got driven into the ground?
Out of the list in Re: #74, how many of those franchises actually got their rights bought out by a Chinese company and got driven into the ground?
Kadokawa's current top earner is 'Re:Zero,' pulling in ¥1.3 billion in 3 months and crushing everything else… meanwhile in publishing, 'Super Kaguya-hime' suddenly jumped to #2, drawing plenty of attention.
https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/299d0e47dd59119fb669b496e189e52d767963cf
Re:Zero's books — supposedly a worldwide hit — and Kimi Puri 1Q, whose overseas sales seem to be almost entirely in Korea, are turning out to have roughly equal overseas sales.
https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/299d0e47dd59119fb669b496e189e52d767963cf
Re:Zero's books — supposedly a worldwide hit — and Kimi Puri 1Q, whose overseas sales seem to be almost entirely in Korea, are turning out to have roughly equal overseas sales.
Isekai, reincarnation, overpowered protagonist, curb-stomping, banishment, harem, villainess — if any of these words show up, I'm dropping it after episode zero.
Re: #124
Whether it's novels, manga adaptations, or anime, if you grit your teeth and wade through the pain and stress of about 100 titles, you'll usually find at least one that's actually worth watching.
Same goes for games.
Whether it's novels, manga adaptations, or anime, if you grit your teeth and wade through the pain and stress of about 100 titles, you'll usually find at least one that's actually worth watching.
Same goes for games.
Re: #124
Even without those words, if the characters are wearing medieval-fantasy costumes, I'm dropping it at episode zero. Swords, armor — instant dealbreaker.
Even without those words, if the characters are wearing medieval-fantasy costumes, I'm dropping it at episode zero. Swords, armor — instant dealbreaker.
Re: #124
Just having those words in there already reeks of generic naro-kei template.
Just having those words in there already reeks of generic naro-kei template.
Background and Key Points of This Discussion
Naro-kei and isekai works originate from web-serial platforms like “Shousetsuka ni Narou,” and whether a title gets an anime adaptation is said to hinge not just on domestic popularity but also on overseas streaming licensing fees and reactions from overseas readers. The ratings data quoted in the thread compares long-running staples like Sazae-san and Doraemon against newer shows, so given the differences in broadcast time slots and viewing environments, that comparison should be taken with some caution. Also, Ubisoft’s Yves Guillemot originally made his comment about trends in the game industry, but the thread applies it directly to the anime industry as-is — it’s worth keeping in mind that production-cost structures and the degree of foreign-capital involvement differ between industries. The back-and-forth about Chinese capital acquiring copyrights also never produced any concrete examples, so no firm conclusion was reached.
*This article was compiled as excerpts and a summary from the 5ch (Hardware/Industry, Geha) thread “Yahoo! News: “It Was Only Natural That Japanese Anime Stopped Being Made For Japanese People”.”
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