From our other sites
The story
The thread’s original poster, after playing the remake of The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, criticized its step-by-step routines — like getting the glove, going back to move a boulder, or planting a magic bean and returning later to collect it — as “just busywork,” arguing that puzzles solved by freely combining abilities, as in Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom, are more fun. Other posters pushed back, pointing out that the basic puzzle structure of “gain a new ability and return to a known location” is common to other action games too, sparking a split of opinion over whether linear or non-linear design is superior.
What people said
It's way more fun when you're handed every item and ability right from the start.
You find a boulder you can't lift without the glove.
I got the glove as adult Link, so I went back, moved the boulder, found a hole, went in, and there was a Gold Skulltula.
Not fun at all — just busywork.
Finding Koroks in Tears of the Kingdom by combining abilities and Zonai gadgets is way more fun.
I got the glove as adult Link, so I went back, moved the boulder, found a hole, went in, and there was a Gold Skulltula.
Not fun at all — just busywork.
Finding Koroks in Tears of the Kingdom by combining abilities and Zonai gadgets is way more fun.
Re: #5
Sure, a fancier reward might create some excitement, but that's just dopamine firing off for the reward itself — it doesn't mean the gameplay itself is actually fun.
Sure, a fancier reward might create some excitement, but that's just dopamine firing off for the reward itself — it doesn't mean the gameplay itself is actually fun.
Among Zelda fans, opinion has been split between the linear camp and the non-linear camp ever since Breath of the Wild.
So did the linear camp actually find this kind of gameplay (Re: #5 Re: #6 Re: #8 Re: #10) fun after playing this Ocarina of Time remake?
So did the linear camp actually find this kind of gameplay (Re: #5 Re: #6 Re: #8 Re: #10) fun after playing this Ocarina of Time remake?
As kid Link you read the password written on a tree, then as an adult you go buy a piece of heart from a Business Scrub (one of the merchant goblin NPCs).
Not fun at all, just busywork.
Having to go back to the Temple of Time every single time, and all the back-and-forth travel, is a pain too.
Not fun at all, just busywork.
Having to go back to the Temple of Time every single time, and all the back-and-forth travel, is a pain too.
Because the abilities you can actually use are so limited, the early- and mid-game dungeons are packed with stuff that isn't even a real puzzle — just busywork like "wipe out all the enemies," "look around the room and hit the switch," or "collect 5 silver rupees."
For me it's Tears of the Kingdom > Breath of the Wild > Ocarina of Time Remake.
Freely coming up with ideas and experimenting feels more proactive than just solving puzzles someone else designed.
Freely coming up with ideas and experimenting feels more proactive than just solving puzzles someone else designed.
Re: #9
Same here.
For gimmicks and puzzle fun, it's Tears of the Kingdom > Breath of the Wild > Skyward Sword > Ocarina of Time.
Same here.
For gimmicks and puzzle fun, it's Tears of the Kingdom > Breath of the Wild > Skyward Sword > Ocarina of Time.
As an adult you find some soft soil.
You go back to being a kid and plant the magic bean.
Then you go back to being an adult again to collect the piece of heart or Gold Skulltula.
Not fun at all — just busywork, plain and simple.
You go back to being a kid and plant the magic bean.
Then you go back to being an adult again to collect the piece of heart or Gold Skulltula.
Not fun at all — just busywork, plain and simple.
There are just so many 3D puzzle games now that something at Ocarina of Time's level feels tutorial-grade.
Going back and forth between past and present is a lot of busywork too.
Going back and forth between past and present is a lot of busywork too.
Re: #16
Well, part of it is that I've already played it and it's too easy, but
I feel like the format itself is just flawed.
Well, part of it is that I've already played it and it's too easy, but
I feel like the format itself is just flawed.
Are there really that many games out there that hand you every item and ability right from the start? (´・ω・\`) Like… Minecraft or something?
Re: #21
Breath of the Wild, Tears of the Kingdom.
Breath of the Wild, Tears of the Kingdom.
If you reject the gradual-unlock format, that pretty much kills off the whole Metroidvania genre.
That said, it's a matter of taste, so I'm not knocking it.
That said, it's a matter of taste, so I'm not knocking it.
Re: #27
I like Metroidvanias.
I even played Silksong all the way to 100% completion.
I like Metroidvanias.
I even played Silksong all the way to 100% completion.
Super casual gamers, if you hand them the whole toolkit from the start and say "go wherever you want," they won't know where to go and will just quit right away.
But it's fine for games like that to exist too — and since this is a remake of a classic, this level is probably fine as is.
But it's fine for games like that to exist too — and since this is a remake of a classic, this level is probably fine as is.
Re: #35
In Breath of the Wild you can go anywhere, so I don't think players actually get lost.
If anything, it's Ocarina of Time's format that needs careful hand-holding or players get lost — and once you're hand-held that carefully, it just turns into busywork.
In Breath of the Wild you can go anywhere, so I don't think players actually get lost.
If anything, it's Ocarina of Time's format that needs careful hand-holding or players get lost — and once you're hand-held that carefully, it just turns into busywork.
Getting a new ability and going back to re-explore a suspicious spot is a basic staple of puzzle-adventure games.
It's like getting the High Jump Boots or bat form in Symphony of the Night.
It's like getting the High Jump Boots or bat form in Symphony of the Night.
Re: #36
Yeah, that's true, but
Ocarina of Time doesn't really have much of that kind of gameplay, does it?
Yeah, that's true, but
Ocarina of Time doesn't really have much of that kind of gameplay, does it?
This guy's the only one who'd start a whole thread over just his own personal opinion.
Re: #37
Let's all share our opinions together.
Let's all share our opinions together.
The ZELDA NOTES companion app integration is nice.
It shows your position in real time, so I keep an iPad next to me and use it as a map.
It shows your position in real time, so I keep an iPad next to me and use it as a map.
Re: #45
Yeah, that really is handy.
Yeah, that really is handy.
Re: #40
It's a bit underwhelming that re-exploring only nets you collectibles, pieces of heart, or rupees, but A Link to the Past is kind of similar.
As for Metroidvanias, IGA's post-Symphony of the Night games also open up plenty of new areas, though going there usually just gets you a modest health upgrade at best.
Shadow Labyrinth is just nuts though — areas only reachable with a newly acquired ability that genuinely have nothing in them when you get there.
It's a bit underwhelming that re-exploring only nets you collectibles, pieces of heart, or rupees, but A Link to the Past is kind of similar.
As for Metroidvanias, IGA's post-Symphony of the Night games also open up plenty of new areas, though going there usually just gets you a modest health upgrade at best.
Shadow Labyrinth is just nuts though — areas only reachable with a newly acquired ability that genuinely have nothing in them when you get there.
Re: #47
Getting a Korok seed isn't as exciting as getting a piece of heart, but
combining Zonai gadgets with Ultrahand to carry a Korok to its friend is way more fun than just planting magic beans or dropping bugs into holes.
Getting a Korok seed isn't as exciting as getting a piece of heart, but
combining Zonai gadgets with Ultrahand to carry a Korok to its friend is way more fun than just planting magic beans or dropping bugs into holes.
So it turns out the Zelda team has two development lines.
I'd guess they'll keep doing mainline titles and remakes in-house, with 2D entries outsourced.
I'd guess they'll keep doing mainline titles and remakes in-house, with 2D entries outsourced.
Re: #50
There are three now, actually 😅
There are three now, actually 😅
Ha, I honestly couldn't follow your point at all, but
I see — you're conflating the low quality of 30-year-old gimmicks built under a 32MB constraint with a problem of the linear format itself.
Maybe don't play the critic quite so hard.
I see — you're conflating the low quality of 30-year-old gimmicks built under a 32MB constraint with a problem of the linear format itself.
Maybe don't play the critic quite so hard.
Re: #53
Huh?
Nintendo themselves saw this structure as a problem over ten years ago — that's literally what led to Breath of the Wild.
Huh?
Nintendo themselves saw this structure as a problem over ten years ago — that's literally what led to Breath of the Wild.
You're just holding a 30-year-old Zelda to a 10-year-old Zelda standard and complaining.
Re: #55
There's a sizable camp that argues the 30-year-old format was actually the better one, you know.
I'm just saying, nah, that's not really it.
There's a sizable camp that argues the 30-year-old format was actually the better one, you know.
I'm just saying, nah, that's not really it.
The thread title's point is "the linear format was fun too," not "the linear format was more fun."
Don't go inventing an opposing camp after the fact.
Don't go inventing an opposing camp after the fact.
Re: #57
Either way works for me.
Linear Zelda is boring.
Either way works for me.
Linear Zelda is boring.
Re: #59
Which is exactly why people are calling this thread a diary entry.
Some folks saw through it from the very start, huh.
Which is exactly why people are calling this thread a diary entry.
Some folks saw through it from the very start, huh.
Re: #61
A diary entry?
You mean it's just a personal opinion?
Well, duh — why state the obvious?
A diary entry?
You mean it's just a personal opinion?
Well, duh — why state the obvious?
Can't believe there's almost nothing new added.
The dungeons and boss fights are nearly identical.
The field exploration is the same too.
Come on, that's just lazy.
The dungeons and boss fights are nearly identical.
The field exploration is the same too.
Come on, that's just lazy.
Re: #80
That's basically how remakes work, isn't it?
That's basically how remakes work, isn't it?
Re: #80
It's basically the ideal remake, I'm tellin' ya 😄 god-tier, god-tier, god-tier
If ya wanna do new stuff, go make a new game, that's what I'm sayin' 😁
This is the exact thing people kept saying about the Dragon Quest III/I/II remakes the whole time 😉
Same goes for FF too 😂
It's basically the ideal remake, I'm tellin' ya 😄 god-tier, god-tier, god-tier
If ya wanna do new stuff, go make a new game, that's what I'm sayin' 😁
This is the exact thing people kept saying about the Dragon Quest III/I/II remakes the whole time 😉
Same goes for FF too 😂
I don't get what the OP is trying to accomplish.
If you played Ocarina of Time and found it boring,
then that's just the OP's opinion and that should be the end of it.
Do you just want everyone to sympathize and pat your head?
If you played Ocarina of Time and found it boring,
then that's just the OP's opinion and that should be the end of it.
Do you just want everyone to sympathize and pat your head?
Re: #95
This, basically 😅
This, basically 😅
Seriously, everything fun about this Ocarina of Time remake is summed up right here 😆 godly
Background and Key Points of This Debate
Ocarina of Time originally released in 1998 for the Nintendo 64 on a 32MB cartridge, and this thread is discussing its remake. For years, the series stuck to a “linear” structure — progressing through dungeons in a fixed order — but starting with Breath of the Wild in 2017, it shifted dramatically toward a “non-linear” approach: freely exploring a vast open world and combining acquired abilities to find your own solutions. This difference in design philosophy has long been a flashpoint among fans debating which approach is superior. What split opinion in this thread was whether the classic puzzle structure feels outdated, or whether it was a reasonable design shaped by the hardware limits of its era — worth noting this isn’t a question a simple old-versus-new comparison can settle.
※This article is compiled and summarized from the 5ch (Hardware/Industry (Geha)) thread “Breath of the Wild is fun, but linear Zelda was fun too — I played Ocarina of Time and “that’s just not true”.”
Leave a Reply