Sparked by a post on X (formerly Twitter) claiming that “what women really mean by ‘cleanliness’ is whether a man is a ‘weak man’ (jakusha danshi, i.e. a low-status, unattractive man) or not,” the debate over “cleanliness” spread to 5ch’s Livegalileo (general live-commentary) board as well. Posters lined up opinions like “if he’s handsome, nobody cares if he’s broke or sweaty” and “in the end it’s looks and money, not cleanliness,” with the discussion expanding to bring up actor Masahiro Higashide as an example and theories about which hairstyles are popular with women — though partway through, things derailed into personal bickering between posters.
What women really mean by “cleanliness” comes down to one thing: whether or not you’re a “weak man.” To women, weakness is a kind of “impurity,” so no matter how well-groomed a guy who can’t shake that “weak” aura makes himself, he just ends up as a “clean weak man” — and since women instinctively recoil from weakness, he still reads as dirty to them in the end. A high-status man’s unwashed d*ck is cleaner to them than a low-status man’s freshly washed hands.
Source: x.com / Original post here
Meanwhile I've seen guys in expensive clothes get totally ignored, more than once.
I was broke and still had women all over me
I was sweaty and still got liked
Even with pretty indoorsy hobbies
A bit of an annoying guy
But since I was a tall, good-looking guy, everyone just let it slide
Good looks
Money
In the end, isn't it just this?
For dating, the handsome guys win
For marriage-hunting, it's the rich guys (though apparently they get cuckolded a lot)
Being serious for a second, you don't even need to be handsome
If you actually understood women, this would be obvious
and as long as you're not bald, that's the bare minimum for "cleanliness," right?
You don't get it — an ugly guy who's well-groomed is still just an ugly guy
Even bald and short, doesn't someone like Masayoshi Son (SoftBank's billionaire founder) still look clean?
Men need to get their wild side back
Stop sucking up to women
Here we go again with the gap between what men think is handsome and what women think is handsome
Guys with a "mushroom cut" who look unpopular at first glance are actually the most popular
Unless the hairstyle is really bizarre, hairstyle doesn't actually matter
Whether it's a buzz cut or a mushroom cut, guys who are popular are popular regardless
Background and Key Points
Being handsome, unfaithfully unwashed, everyone’s Uniqlo tale — let me address the piece.
The “cleanliness” (清潔感, seiketsukan) discourse is a long-running fixture of Japanese dating discourse: it’s the near-universal answer women give in surveys and interviews to “what matters in a man’s appearance,” and it nominally describes hygiene-adjacent basics — trimmed hair, ironed clothes, no body odor. What’s changed is that men online have increasingly argued the term is a euphemism, a socially acceptable way to reject men without naming looks, height, or income directly. The X post that kicked off this thread crystallizes that suspicion into a slogan: “cleanliness” is really just code for not being a “weak man” (jakusha danshi), a term itself borrowed from incel-adjacent online vocabulary to mean low-status or unattractive.
Where the 5ch thread actually splits is not on whether looks matter — nearly everyone agrees they do — but on whether “cleanliness” is a meaningfully separate axis from looks and money at all, or simply dissolves into them entirely. Posts like #112 try to defend a literal, checklist version of cleanliness (fitted clothes, no baldness), while #114 flatly denies that grooming can rescue an unattractive man. A secondary, more revealing split is between #108’s dating/marriage distinction (looks win short-term, money wins for marriage) and #109’s claim that neither matters if you “understand women” — a vaguer, less falsifiable position nobody in the thread presses further.
What the thread never engages with is the actual social function of “cleanliness” talk: it’s also aimed at other women, signaling a woman herself has standards, not just a private preference communicated to men. Readers unfamiliar with Japanese gender-relations discourse may also miss that “weak man” and this whole framing echo terminology from Japan’s own manosphere-style forums, not neutral dating advice.
*This article is excerpted and summarized from the 5ch (Livegalileo) thread 「[Sad News] Here’s What Women Really Mean by “Cleanliness” LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL」.













































