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The story
Hello! Project’s Juice=Juice (debuted 2013) and Tsubaki Factory (debuted 2017) became a hot topic on 5ch after it emerged that, based on JASRAC-registered song counts, Tsubaki Factory has climbed to 114 songs versus Juice=Juice’s 119 — a gap that’s closing fast. Given the two groups debuted four years apart, posters pulled up comparison data on annual new-song releases since 2022, debating whether Juice=Juice’s release pace has slowed and how Tsubaki Factory, after a past crisis over member departures, ramped up releases as part of a turnaround push. The thread also argued over how the counts were tallied, including whether stage-play recordings should count.
What people said
Seriously, Juice=Juice got treated so badly back then
It wasn't just 'Moremi' blowing up — 'Hito Sore' (fan nicknames for specific bits/segments) was having a mini breakout too
No other group could even pull off buzz on the level of 'Hito Sore'
Juice=Juice has always been hands-down the #1 group for contribution
Irie aside, today's Juice wouldn't be complete without Arisawa and Ebata
They keep recycling the same old songs they've already performed, so the line distribution stays locked in
Can someone compile each group's song output over the last 10 years?
Morning Musume isn't fewer than Juice=Juice either
Song count since 2022
27 Morning Musume '26
35 Angerme
26 Juice=Juice
29 Tsubaki Factory
35 BEYOOOOONDS
36 OCHA NORMA
18 Rosy Chronicle *2025 onward
New songs per year
*5.4 Morning Musume '26
*7.0 Angerme
*5.2 Juice=Juice
*5.8 Tsubaki Factory
*7.0 BEYOOOOONDS
*7.2 OCHA NORMA
*9.0 Rosy Chronicle *2025 onward
Up until around '14 they'd release new songs 2-3 times a year and still put out an album…
That said, Juice=Juice is still getting frozen out in real time, for what it's worth Re: #11
BEYOOOOONDS: 118 songs, debuted 2019
Includes songs from stage plays
Per JASRAC
— Tsubaki
Pretty much the only duds are 'Ashita Yarou wa Baka Yarou' (lit. 'Putting It Off Till Tomorrow Makes You a Fool'), 'Senobi,' 'Black Butterfly,' 'Jitanda Dance,' and 'Çava Çava?'
Kanazawa, Miyamoto (Irie), Kawashima
Even once everyone's health was fine, they were still getting frozen out, so that wasn't even the real issue
Juice has 115 but Tsubaki only has 74
Where's the discrepancy coming from?
Probably because Juice=Juice's count is padded out with things like 'Juicetory' and different versions of 'Garbi'
They're still only at 3 original albums
And even their latest album came out 4.5 years ago
With this little new material, the live shows are bound to get stale
Hello! Project is finished if Juice=Juice's stale, repetitive live shows are the most in-demand thing it's got
But would there really be 40 stage-play songs
Where can I see Tsubaki's 114-song list
I want to check what's missing
I see, thanks
So there really are a lot of stage-play songs
Is this count inflated by a ton of throwaway stage-play songs?
They've done a ridiculous number of stage plays too
And they've put out 3 albums (Juice and Tsubaki have also only done 3 so far)
So landing at roughly the same count as Juice and Tsubaki seems reasonable
'Milk' also dropped 4 unit songs over 4 straight months
Up-Front just doesn't have that kind of 'drive'
Always doing things at their own pace
Now that they've started streaming, Up-Front probably thinks they can stretch the same release volume thinner with early digital drops
How it's allocated is up to each team's staff
Back when Tsubaki was cranking out triple singles one after another, Juice was spending its money on cover-song licensing rights and live musicians for every track
Tsubaki's songs are mostly programmed/sequenced, which keeps costs down overall
I only ever hear that Juice=Juice's Yamashita/Takeuchi covers (i.e. Tatsuro Yamashita and Mariya Takeuchi songs) have weak production
This is the first time since the group's formation that Morning Musume has put out only 1 CD in a year
And Juice=Juice not releasing even a single CD in a year is a first for Hello! Project since the Momusu-Berryz-S/mileage era (excluding BEYOOOOONDS in 2020, which couldn't release CDs because of COVID)
And which group was getting pushed hard this year while all that was happening? No question, it's Tsubaki Factory
There's literally been talk of 'my favorite only gets 1 a year while that group gets pushed with 2'
Things are pretty messed up at this point
Suma Angerme 134
Juice 115
Tsubaki 74
Beyoo 54
Ocha 31
Rosy 14
There's no way Juice actually has that many — are you including things like 'Juicetory' or live recordings?
Different versions of 'Juicetory' are counted as duplicates, but the only live recording in there is the recent 'Garbi'
Slapping the departing member's face on the cover is just such a waste, honestly
It's a format that brings in zero new fans
All it does is let a handful of existing fans wallow in sentimentality
What worked in Juice's favor is that they went almost 3 years without a stretch of back-to-back graduations
So for roughly these last 3 years, they've at least been able to compete
I hope Morning Musume and Tsubaki get through that phase soon too
Angerme's going to be centered on Hashisako's graduation until next spring
It's obvious they won't sell even once that phase is over, so graduations are just being used to paper over it
If you'd forgive that happening to your favorite, then it'd be fine for everyone to do it, right?
Fine, but then make an MV for the new song
What's the point of only having an MV for 'Burabare' (a song nickname) when footage already exists for that one?
Background and Key Points of Debate
Song counts are based on JASRAC-registered titles, which include incidental songs from stage plays and different versions of cover tracks, so they don’t line up neatly with a simple count of new song releases. Data cited in the thread on “annual new songs since 2022” put Juice=Juice at 5.2 songs per year versus Tsubaki Factory’s 5.8, showing that Tsubaki — despite debuting four years later — is effectively catching up in raw numbers. Some posters argued that Tsubaki Factory, which reportedly faced a crisis of near-disbandment after a string of past member departures, boosted its output afterward as part of a push to strengthen the group. Meanwhile, several posts claimed Juice=Juice is “being frozen out by management,” but it’s worth noting this isn’t based on any official announcement — it’s fan speculation. It’s also easy to overlook that a difference in song count alone doesn’t settle which group is more popular or better regarded.
※This article is excerpted and summarized from the 5ch (Hello! Project) thread “Juice=Juice Song Count: 119 (Debuted 2013) / Tsubaki Factory Song Count: 114 (Debuted 2017) ← Is This for Real?.”
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