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The story
A post claiming a landlord demanded ¥1.5 million in restoration costs after the poster moved out of a rental he’d lived in for 11 years went up on 5ch’s Nandemo Jikkyo G board. After photos of holes in the walls, rotted flooring, and a urine-stained toilet were posted, the thread split between those saying “that’s way too much of a rip-off” and those arguing “with that much negligence, ¥1.5 million isn’t unreasonable.” Debate continued over how to account for normal wear-and-tear depreciation and how to interpret the official restoration guidelines.
What people said
The flooring in the changing room had a hole in it, and part of the wall had a hole too.
The bathtub's cracked and some of the doors have holes in them.
You're spot on.
Cats pretty much always do that.
I fell asleep sitting on the couch and busted through the wallpaper with my head.
Not if you didn't even do the bare minimum of upkeep.
Apparently depreciation does get factored in.
I was told I only need to cover labor plus the door, toilet, and bath.
The cat thing shouldn't have been found out.
There were so many disputes that the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism made a guideline on depreciation standards, but
shady landlords apparently just say "it's only a guideline, we're not obligated to follow it."
If it actually goes to court, rulings follow the guideline, but it's such a hassle that most people give up, so landlords win more often than not.
I left AC leaks and a roof leak unattended and the flooring surface peeled up.
I'm getting it set up as installments.
When I first said ¥10,000 a month, they said "you can afford a bit more than that, right~" which annoyed me, but…
How much was your rent?
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I'm speechless that you lived in this room for 11 years, but
even at the high end that's ¥500,000.
Sorry about that.
It's a 3K layout (3 rooms + kitchen), and I lived there for 11 years.
¥1.5 million for 11 years is definitely a rip-off.
Depreciation would be fully done on everything by now.
Try searching "please submit in writing based on the restoration guidelines."
Show us the estimate so we can see how you're actually getting ripped off.
Isn't that yellow vertical streak on the toilet bowl urine scale?
And the "changing room" is the spot right after you get out of the bath — it's hidden behind the fridge, but part of the flooring there rotted and got a hole in it.
Hang tight on the estimate, I'll post it once I get home a bit later.
Impressive that you managed to rent a different place after this.
I'll be honest with you —
at first glance, ¥1.5 million isn't a rip-off amount at all.
It's a 2LDK, right?
There's just way too much tenant negligence here.
Really? I got spooked because it felt way too expensive, but I guess it can't be helped.
As for the negligence, it's basically just not cleaning, letting it get filthy, and keeping a cat.
With 5 people including the kids living there, I figure some of this was bound to happen, and honestly after 11 years I was hoping they'd say "thanks for staying so long" and only charge me something like ¥100,000 for move-out.
I got hit with a ¥600,000 move-out bill for an office my late father used, but I sent a written letter laying out my reasons for refusing to pay, and it ended up being free.
Though I did get an angry phone call over it.
Tenants have what's called a "duty of care as a good manager" — an obligation to clean regularly and keep the place tidy.
If you don't clean and let mold take over and just leave it, that's on the tenant to pay for.
Normal wear-and-tear is the landlord's responsibility, but the basic duty to restore the property falls on the tenant.
Keeping something you borrowed from someone else clean is just common sense.
How many years did you live there?
11 years.
At first I was happy, you know? Moving out of my parents' place, living with my wife and kid, having my own home.
But then work got busy, I stopped tidying up, and as the kid grew the place felt cramped with nowhere to put anything, and it started making me irritable.
When my mortgage got approved, it felt like being freed from that hell.
If you lived there 11 years, depreciation should get you a decent reduction.
Mine went from ¥250,000 down to ¥20,000.
Wait, you had a wife there too and it still got this filthy?
¥1.5 million is definitely a rip-off.
Nothing listed in Re: #1 is bad enough to need a full replacement, so even going by the book I'd guess it tops out around ¥500,000.
That take sounds way too clueless.
There's no way this stays under ¥500,000 by any reasonable look.
Re: #103
Depreciation basically applies to wallpaper and cushion flooring over a 6-year schedule,
plus there's the normal wear-and-tear category — scratches and stains that happen from everyday living.
Flooring sometimes gets calculated on the same depreciation schedule as the building itself, so for a wood-frame building (22-year depreciation) after 11 years of residence, you could argue for only paying half even on a full replacement.
It's different for reinforced concrete, but either way we can't really say without seeing the estimate.
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Here's the estimate.
The numbers in red are apparently what they're charging me. The percentages are apparently figures the real estate company came up with from years of experience.
That's a rip-off.
I'll say it again, but you didn't move into a brand-new apartment, did you?
The wall charge is cheap — if you arranged it yourself it'd probably cost more.
Forgot to post this one.
Background and Key Points of This Debate
When it comes to rental move-out costs, one benchmark is the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism’s guideline on “Disputes and Guidelines Concerning Restoration to Original Condition.” Damage and fading that occur from everyday living are classified as “normal wear-and-tear,” which falls on the landlord, and the tenant’s share shrinks according to depreciation schedules — six years for wallpaper and cushion flooring, and for the building itself, 22 years for wood-frame construction, for example. However, this guideline carries no legal force, and as pointed out in the thread, unscrupulous landlords sometimes dismiss it as “just a guideline, not something we’re required to follow” — unless a tenant actually takes it to court, where rulings do follow the guideline, many simply give up and the landlord’s asking price wins out. In this case, tenant-side negligence such as cat damage and insufficient cleaning is also mixed in, making it hard to judge from photos alone whether this is a rip-off or a fair charge.
※This article is compiled as an excerpt and summary from the 5ch (Nandemo Jikkyo G) thread “[Bad News] I Got Hit with a ¥1.5 Million Move-Out Bill.”
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