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The story
A thread titled “Why have underground idols multiplied like this?” popped up on 5ch’s Hello! Project board. It started with a poster’s question after watching the streaming show “Idol Battle Alive,” comparing underground idols’ merch sales and cheki (Polaroid photo session) business model to hostess clubs and the sex trade. Commenters argued that the meet-and-greet and bonus-item sales model popularized by AKB48 lowered the barrier to entry, and pointed to the economics of it: a group can sustain itself with as few as around 100 regular fans. At the same time, some argued that certain groups, like RINWAN and Kinoho., rival Hello! Project in dance and songwriting skill, sparking debate over “why they haven’t broken into the mainstream.”
What people said
Aren't concept-cafe girls and other nightlife hostesses basically the same as underground idols?
At the end of the day, are underground idols just sex workers?
doesn't do meet-and-greets
and sell bonus-item merch
Not otaku demand for underground idols,
but demand from young women who want to become idols
but cheki (Polaroid photos) are bad?
That distinction makes no sense
Who cares if there are more of them?
It's not hurting you any
but pitting idols against each other in competition is pointless to begin with, right?
It's impressive the business even works
like the ones at Stardust Promotion
Honestly Hello! Project has been running on nothing but underground-tier activity for ages
these days they have zero name recognition with the public, they tour the boonies, they don't spend money on staging, and splitting shows into two sessions is standard
setting aside whether it's good or bad that anyone can be an idol now
but K-pop's business model never gets criticized at all — what's with that?
What do you mean, 'K-pop's business model'?
and if about 5 of those are big spenders, they're set
If the average spend is 10,000 yen across 100 people, that's already 1 million yen
even at 5,000 yen that's 500,000 yen
might actually be a pretty sweet business
you can just post online and cash in on merch sales
and there's only so long you can keep coasting on the prestige the word 'idol' carried back when idols were real stars
it's just that huge numbers are forming and disappearing all the time
Where exactly are these 'mainstream idols'?
That's not happening
the top tier can go toe-to-toe with groups like Juice=Juice or BEYOOOOONDS
it's not just about meet-and-greets
Groups like RINWAN, Kinoho., aibeck, and Neo Japo — their members write and compose their own songs and even do their own choreography
honestly, a lot of underground idols have way more talent and looks than Hello! Project
Then why can't they break into the mainstream? lol
nobody's asking idols to write their own songs anyway, are they? lol
What are you even talking about — Hello! Project has barely been on network TV in over 25 years
the only ones who get constant mainstream airtime are the ones with agency connections and backroom deals, are you seriously that clueless?
there were unknown idols who only got to shine in events like that
there weren't male idols doing it, but
for female idols it was actually normal for even the famous ones to be terrible athletes
These days it's not like they're all such low-level acts
there's nothing to gain from it
If anything, isn't just appearing a win precisely because this show is so low-budget?
They'd probably gotten offers from Playt and others too, but since Appare didn't perform well, they didn't send out En or Parepare either
Because they like singing and dancing?
Because they want to make fans smile?
Because they just want attention, whatever it takes?
If they were teenagers, fine,
but as a job for adults in their 20s, isn't that kind of childish?
It basically comes down to money
if you can do what you love and get paid for it, there's nothing to complain about
it's dirt cheap and you can genuinely connect with them, so if a Hello! otaku gets hooked they can become a top oshi (TO) almost instantly
but Hello! fans are probably in it for the performances too, so they wouldn't even glance at underground idols
The skill level in the underground scene is rising right now
once RINWAN beats Rosy and it becomes clear Hello! Project is weak in both meet-and-greets and actual skill, Hello! fans will flood over in droves
there are still a few more groups underground on RINWAN's level
well, since they're built entirely around dance numbers, whether you can even call them 'idols' is another question
Someone like that belongs over with the Zairu crowd (a different idol subgenre)
they're out of place here
Background and Key Points of This Debate
The merch-sales and bonus-item business model used by underground idols is said to trace back to around 2010, when the AKB48 group popularized it on a massive scale through handshake events and cheki (Polaroid photo) sessions. Because entry costs are relatively low, this creates a structure in which new groups with no chance of network TV exposure can easily proliferate. Some in the thread argued that “K-pop’s business model never gets criticized the same way,” but this overlooks the fact that K-pop’s model mainly drives mass CD purchases through bonus items, a different mechanism from the meet-and-greet model. There are also many posts that lump all underground idols together in terms of skill, but in reality, more and more groups have started handling their own choreography and songwriting in recent years, meaning they aren’t necessarily a notch below “mainstream” idols.
※This article is excerpted and summarized from the 5ch (Hello! Project board) thread “Why Have Underground Idols Multiplied Like This? A Thought After Watching Idol Battle Alive.”
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