From our other sites
The story
Nippon-Ham Fighters pitcher Hiroumi Itoh sparked debate on 5ch after remarking that Seibu’s third-base coach makes a specific, consistent movement only when a certain pitch type is coming. At issue is an NPB rule — agreed upon by all 12 teams — that bans runners or coaches from relaying pitch types to the batter. On the thread, opinions clashed between those saying “analyzing tells is fine, but relaying them on the field is a different matter” and those arguing “without proof, Seibu shouldn’t be suspected,” with many posters also drawing comparisons to past controversies involving Hanshin’s Kondo and the alleged sign-stealing between Hanshin and Yakult.
What people said
Don't disrespect Reyes.
Also tell your provocation-loving manager to quit acting like he's SoftBank's rival.
It's fine to call him out if he's actually doing it.
Sure, fix it — but whether the coach is allowed to relay it is a separate issue.
People who mix up different points like this… are they a bit slow or something? ("girikei" — slang for someone barely passing as competent)
Re: #26
It's the pitcher's fault if the tell gets noticed, but it's not the pitcher's fault if someone then relays it.
The idiot who gets his signs stolen is the one at fault.
By that logic, a runner on second can just openly steal signs all he wants?
Relaying itself was already against the rules to begin with.
You Fighters fans who forced a defense of Reyes back then should cut Seibu the same slack.
Reyes wasn't doing it.
Seibu is doing it.
Can't you grasp something this simple?
The point is you should avoid doing anything that looks suspicious, proof or not.
Same as the Kondo incident.
I thought it was pretty normal for the first-base coach to tip a runner off about a pitcher's pickoff tells to help him steal — is that not allowed either?
Relaying pitch info to the batter is what's not allowed.
Coaching a runner beforehand with something like "when he moves like this it's a breaking ball, so run" is of course fine.
But relaying it live in the moment — "that's a breaking ball!" — is not.
Passing pitch-type info from a "runner or coach" to a "batter or runner" is banned under an agreement among all 12 NPB teams.
Probably better not to bring this up.
It's not like it's fun, but why not just expose each other then.
From Itoh's perspective, just because his own team does it doesn't mean he's going to shrug it off when it happens to him on the mound.
The catcher would have to spread his legs pretty wide for that to work, no?
For a right-handed pitcher, you'd get a good view around the glove, wouldn't you?
It's not about seeing the sign — the grip and the tell are the same thing here.
Something like the right shoulder rising — you'd only notice that from the side, wouldn't you?
Batters can't exactly focus on every little detail of the pitcher's motion.
His reaction was about as suspicious as someone shouting 'I'm not doing it, you idiot!'
For the record, Hanshin turned out clean.
Yakult was apparently the guilty one.
It was hilarious how the guy who said "that's no good" (a phrase of his that became a meme) suddenly couldn't hit at all once Wakatsuki started hopping around behind the plate.
Probably because he was the one doing shady stuff himself, he got paranoid and started imagining things.
Analyzing is fine, relaying is not.
The point is that once the offense finishes exchanging signs, the base coach should just stand still.
If he keeps moving, there's no way to tell the difference between him actually relaying signals and just fidgeting.
It's like the old saying: don't straighten your cap under a plum tree (i.e., avoid anything that looks suspicious, even if it's innocent).
Though honestly, instead of this pointless feud, I think he should just focus on his own pitching and the batter.
What do you even mean???
Are pitchers not allowed to look at the coach?
Do you seriously think reading the opponent's signs is against the rules?
That's not actually banned, is it?
The coach should quit doing unnecessary things and just focus on the official signs and baserunning instructions.
Some fans (sarcastically dubbed the 'treasures') are happily piling on Kuroda for saying "they glared at me," but they don't seem to realize Kuroda's comment was actually the more mature response.
I don't know exactly what was exchanged, but it's the offensive side that needs to avoid anything suspicious-looking, and the moment someone heads toward the mound, that's already pretty far from mature.
It's an issue between the two parties involved.
Ever since the "that's no good" incident, it's become like whoever complains first wins.
If you just kick up a fuss on your own, it damages the other side's reputation, and gives you an excuse if you get hit too.
Background and Key Points of the Debate
In NPB, all 12 teams have agreed to ban runners or coaches from relaying pitch types to the batter, but analyzing tells in a pitcher’s delivery is not itself prohibited. The thread’s disagreement centered on exactly where that line falls: some argued it’s premature to assume relaying occurred just because the third-base coach moved, while others countered that the problem starts the moment a coach makes a suspicious-looking movement at all. Similar controversies have recurred before — including one involving Kondo and another suspicion surrounding a 2023 game against the Yakult Swallows — and this latest remark falls into that same pattern. A point readers commonly misunderstand is that simply reading signs isn’t against the rules; the real issue is whether that information gets relayed to the batter. The lack of hard evidence was also cited as grounds for skepticism toward the accusation.
*This article is compiled from excerpts and a summary of the 5ch (Nandemo Jikkyo G) thread “Fighters’ Hiroumi Itoh: “The Seibu third-base coach makes one specific movement only when throwing a certain pitch type. He’s been doing it for a while.”“.
Leave a Reply