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The story
With Atlus’s dungeon RPG series “Etrian Odyssey” now available as an HD remaster (bundling I, II, and III) for just ¥3,400, a debate over the series’ merits broke out on 5ch’s hardware/industry (Geha) board. The DS and 3DS entries were known for their stylus-drawn maps, and the battle balance and directorial vision shifted with each new installment. Opinions in the thread ranged from “just play the first one” to “IV is the series’ finished form” and “III is the best pick if you want something playable on current hardware,” with posters also debating why the pace of new releases has slowed.
What people said
Isn't playing just Etrian Odyssey I enough?
Honestly, as a dungeon RPG it wasn't as good as people say.
It only got hyped up because it was a Nintendo exclusive.
Honestly, as a dungeon RPG it wasn't as good as people say.
It only got hyped up because it was a Nintendo exclusive.
Used copies were ¥2,980 at Geo, so brand new at this price seems fine.
Re: #3
I think a lot of its praise comes from how well it used the dual screens and stylus, not just how fun the gameplay itself was. It wasn't unfairly hyped just because it was exclusive.
Re: #3
I think a lot of its praise comes from how well it used the dual screens and stylus, not just how fun the gameplay itself was. It wasn't unfairly hyped just because it was exclusive.
Re: #3
I and II were still prioritizing ideas over polish, so they're not that fun. I played I, thought "eh, this is it?" and drifted away, but from IV onward it's been great.
I and II were still prioritizing ideas over polish, so they're not that fun. I played I, thought "eh, this is it?" and drifted away, but from IV onward it's been great.
Etrian Odyssey is a game built specifically for the DS/3DS — about 80% of its appeal comes from drawing your own maps with the stylus on those dual-screen handhelds (´・ω・`) In a way it's an "experience" game.
Take that away and it becomes a pretty generic, unremarkable dungeon RPG.
Take that away and it becomes a pretty generic, unremarkable dungeon RPG.
Re: #13
Nah, from III onward the turn-based combat is top-tier, so it doesn't become generic even without the map-drawing.
Nah, from III onward the turn-based combat is top-tier, so it doesn't become generic even without the map-drawing.
Etrian Odyssey and Atlus's other dungeon RPGs are basically educational tools where you get through by reading the map layout and picking the right class composition, so they're weak on the "get excited about finding unique gear" side that other DRPGs have.
Re: #17
I get that. But I guess Atlus just doesn't want players muscling through with absurdly strong weapons — they get anxious if the player isn't suffering.
I get that. But I guess Atlus just doesn't want players muscling through with absurdly strong weapons — they get anxious if the player isn't suffering.
I actually love I. I'm the type who gets attached to raising fixed characters, so I never warmed up to II onward, where there are bosses that basically require a specific class with a specific skill or you're stuck.
Re: #18
Wait, what? I is the game where you're stuck without a Medic, Protector, and either a Bard or "Kasume" (fan nickname for a job class). From III onward things got more flexible.
Wait, what? I is the game where you're stuck without a Medic, Protector, and either a Bard or "Kasume" (fan nickname for a job class). From III onward things got more flexible.
IV was Etrian Odyssey's finished form (´・ω・`) It even supported 3D stereoscopic display, you know? Stereoscopic 3D and dungeon RPGs are a perfect match.
Thinking back on it makes me want to play on 3DS again.
I like the Switch-era games too, but I loved the DS-era ones.
Thinking back on it makes me want to play on 3DS again.
I like the Switch-era games too, but I loved the DS-era ones.
It's a game with a pretty tightly laid-out path where you enjoy fitting into exactly what the developers intended.
It's basically a different genre from other dungeon RPGs.
It's basically a different genre from other dungeon RPGs.
Re: #21
It's kind of like solving a tsumeshogi puzzle (a shogi puzzle with one forced solution).
It's kind of like solving a tsumeshogi puzzle (a shogi puzzle with one forced solution).
Re: #20
IV, which old-school fans trashed at the time, is now treated as the series' masterpiece.
IV, which old-school fans trashed at the time, is now treated as the series' masterpiece.
Re: #22
What didn't the old-school fans like about it?
What didn't the old-school fans like about it?
Re: #28
Wasn't it things like the music, and the dungeons dropping to 3 floors per stratum? I and II had 5 floors per stratum, III cut it to 4, and IV cut it down even further.
Wasn't it things like the music, and the dungeons dropping to 3 floors per stratum? I and II had 5 floors per stratum, III cut it to 4, and IV cut it down even further.
Re: #28
I often saw comments like "it lost its edge and became too mass-market, it doesn't feel like Etrian Odyssey anymore," so I think a lot of people just couldn't handle the design shift that came with the director change.
I often saw comments like "it lost its edge and became too mass-market, it doesn't feel like Etrian Odyssey anymore," so I think a lot of people just couldn't handle the design shift that came with the director change.
Needing a specific finishing move on a boss to get rare drop materials is part of why leveling classes is such a pain.
In the end you have to raise a character in every single class, which gets exhausting too.
Knowing Atlus these days, they'd probably just sell a grinding map as DLC.
In the end you have to raise a character in every single class, which gets exhausting too.
Knowing Atlus these days, they'd probably just sell a grinding map as DLC.
Re: #27
Back with Shin (New) II they already pulled the nonsense of "the map won't be complete unless you buy the DLC," though — apparently it got criticized so hard that they didn't do that again for V or X.
Back with Shin (New) II they already pulled the nonsense of "the map won't be complete unless you buy the DLC," though — apparently it got criticized so hard that they didn't do that again for V or X.
Re: #27
They added the Dissection Solution item for people annoyed by conditional drops, and you don't actually need to raise every single class.
They added the Dissection Solution item for people annoyed by conditional drops, and you don't actually need to raise every single class.
Re: #27
Without it, you'd have to keep grinding until the rare item finally drops.
Without it, you'd have to keep grinding until the rare item finally drops.
There's almost no hack-and-slash loot element, and outside of I — which has messy balance — the range of viable strategies is pretty narrow.
So much of the experience relied on the unique niche gimmick of drawing your own map with the stylus that, as a dungeon RPG proper…
So much of the experience relied on the unique niche gimmick of drawing your own map with the stylus that, as a dungeon RPG proper…
II isn't really refined enough to call it a "fixed-up version" of I anyway.
The skill trees in this era are just a mess.
Just play III.
The skill trees in this era are just a mess.
Just play III.
Re: #48
I actually thought II's game balance was worse than I's. IV is the easiest one to recommend overall, but among what's playable on current hardware it's III.
I actually thought II's game balance was worse than I's. IV is the easiest one to recommend overall, but among what's playable on current hardware it's III.
Re: #48
II's balance is broken because enemy evasion and attack power are way too inflated. Damage-dealing classes like Swordsman or Gunner miss so often that Ranger and Dark Hunter actually deal more damage. And enemy attack power is so inflated that wasting a slot on defense makes wipes more likely, so putting a Protector or a pet in your party actually makes things less stable, not more.
II's balance is broken because enemy evasion and attack power are way too inflated. Damage-dealing classes like Swordsman or Gunner miss so often that Ranger and Dark Hunter actually deal more damage. And enemy attack power is so inflated that wasting a slot on defense makes wipes more likely, so putting a Protector or a pet in your party actually makes things less stable, not more.
Isn't this thread full of people bashing the series with opinions that reek of never having actually played it?
That line from Re: #33 about "the range of viable strategies being narrow outside of I" is something you'd never say if you'd actually played the series.
That line from Re: #33 about "the range of viable strategies being narrow outside of I" is something you'd never say if you'd actually played the series.
Re: #52
Maybe they're just an efficiency-obsessed min-maxer? It is a game where some party compositions are unfairly overpowered compared to others.
Maybe they're just an efficiency-obsessed min-maxer? It is a game where some party compositions are unfairly overpowered compared to others.
Re: #53
If you think the whole series has a narrow range of solutions, fine, that's consistent. But thinking I specifically has relatively high freedom is baffling — if anything, I is the narrow one.
If you think the whole series has a narrow range of solutions, fine, that's consistent. But thinking I specifically has relatively high freedom is baffling — if anything, I is the narrow one.
Re: #53
If anything, I bet they just had so many choices they didn't know what to do, so they leaned on a walkthrough site and played it like checking answers. Worst case, they might just feel like they "cleared" the game because they read a guide.
If anything, I bet they just had so many choices they didn't know what to do, so they leaned on a walkthrough site and played it like checking answers. Worst case, they might just feel like they "cleared" the game because they read a guide.
Sounds like one of those extremist fanboys from the Experience (a rival dungeon-RPG developer) threads who trash every other game.
Re: #54
I bought Yomi wo Saku Hana and Stranger of Sword City (both by Experience), but the moment I got Elminage Original, those became worthless. The UI's way too rough.
I bought Yomi wo Saku Hana and Stranger of Sword City (both by Experience), but the moment I got Elminage Original, those became worthless. The UI's way too rough.
Re: #40
It's a precious item, and landing the finishing blow on the exact turn you use it is pretty hard. I wish they'd make it so the drop is guaranteed no matter when you finish the enemy off, or at least guarantee first-turn action.
It's a precious item, and landing the finishing blow on the exact turn you use it is pretty hard. I wish they'd make it so the drop is guaranteed no matter when you finish the enemy off, or at least guarantee first-turn action.
Re: #70
Getting the drop nets you that class's strongest weapon — not wanting to put in the effort for that is just being spoiled.
Getting the drop nets you that class's strongest weapon — not wanting to put in the effort for that is just being spoiled.
IV, V, X, and the New I & II remakes, right? I thought they'd just keep pumping out new entries. I wonder if it's a sales issue?
Re: #79
Etrian Odyssey used to release fast once they had a template to work from, and it's been three years of silence since the remaster — so it's probably a sales issue.
Etrian Odyssey used to release fast once they had a template to work from, and it's been three years of silence since the remaster — so it's probably a sales issue.
Re: #79
A big factor was that Atlus, known for being slow developers, could crank these out back-to-back by reusing the system. It's also how they managed to put out Persona Q.
A big factor was that Atlus, known for being slow developers, could crank these out back-to-back by reusing the system. It's also how they managed to put out Persona Q.
Re: #79
Well, it's less that Etrian Odyssey isn't profitable and more that Atlus just can't spare staff for a title that sells 100-150k copies. That used to be fine, but nowadays just recycling Persona sells 1-2 million copies every year. So it's cheap to make, but the time-efficiency is bad.
Well, it's less that Etrian Odyssey isn't profitable and more that Atlus just can't spare staff for a title that sells 100-150k copies. That used to be fine, but nowadays just recycling Persona sells 1-2 million copies every year. So it's cheap to make, but the time-efficiency is bad.
X clearly used assets that were probably originally meant for a New III, and the volume of content is obviously different too — you could kind of tell the direction had changed and this was meant to be a stopping point.
Re: #82
There's a theory that Buroto and Enrika were originally meant to be party members for a New III.
There's a theory that Buroto and Enrika were originally meant to be party members for a New III.
To begin with, the whole series started from map-drawing, so not being physically able to do that anymore is a huge, huge change no matter how you look at it.
If they judged that wasn't working out, it wouldn't be surprising.
If they judged that wasn't working out, it wouldn't be surprising.
Re: #88
If you're going to say that, doesn't it mean nothing new will ever come out unless Nintendo releases a third DS-style dual-screen system?
If you're going to say that, doesn't it mean nothing new will ever come out unless Nintendo releases a third DS-style dual-screen system?
Background and Key Points of This Discussion
Etrian Odyssey is a series that began on the DS in 2007, selling itself on dual screens and stylus-drawn maps. In the 3DS entry “Etrian Odyssey 2 Untold: The Fafnir Knight,” part of the dungeon maps were sold as DLC, a decision that split opinion even at the time — the thread’s comment that “the map won’t be complete unless you buy the DLC” is believed to be referring to this. Meanwhile, on the topic of why new entries have become less frequent since the 2020s, posters offered a commercial theory: that with Persona alone projected to sell over a million copies a year just through repeated re-releases, Atlus can’t easily spare staff for a title like Etrian Odyssey that sells around 100,000 copies. It’s worth noting, though, that this isn’t something Atlus has officially stated — it’s purely speculation from 5ch.
*This article is compiled and summarized from the 5ch (Hardware/Industry, aka “Geha”) thread “Etrian Odyssey I, II & III HD Remaster Hits ¥3,400 — Is Now the Time to Buy?.”
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