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The story
Japan’s new NISA tax-free investment program has expanded its lifetime tax-exempt investment cap to 18 million yen, and a lifestyle known as “NISA poverty” — trying to max out that limit as fast as possible — is drawing attention. At a networking event called the “NISA Poverty Bar” covered by ABEMA TIMES, participants shared their reality: breaking up with a girlfriend just to hit the cap, or putting 110,000 yen of a 200,000 yen monthly income into investments. Expert Nikuyo Nikunokoji called the trend “seriously precarious.” On 5channel, opinions clashed head-on between those who argued that filling the quota in five years makes life easier afterward thanks to compound interest, and critics who said sacrificing your life and relationships for it defeats the whole purpose.
The Reality of “Extreme Living” Discussed at the “NISA Poverty Bar” — “I Broke Up With My Girlfriend to Max Out My Contributions,” “Investing 110,000 Yen Out of a 200,000 Yen Income” — Expert Nikuyo Nikunokoji Warns “It’s Seriously Precarious”
Published Fri, 8/28, 11:00
ABEMA TIMES
Source: news.yahoo.co.jp / Original article here
What people said
Private vice (overspending) is a public virtue.
Private virtue (NISA poverty) is a public vice.
Why? If you fill the 18-million-yen cap in 5 years, your money starts snowballing fast after that, so you won't need to keep funneling your paycheck into savings.
Put in 5 years of contributions and after that you can spend what you earn guilt-free.
I think this is really a topic for people who don't make much money though…
Basically I think you should do whatever you want.
Though I do think it's kind of dumb (lol)
Why are you assuming it'll keep growing lol
For people who can't raise their income even by investing in themselves, NISA works fine, I think. Invest in yourself without spending money.
I think investing in yourself is important too, and breaking up with a girlfriend you actually care about just to max out your contributions is peak stupidity.
If she's some girl you don't care about, sure, break up lol
But the iDeCo contribution limit goes up next year, right?
Looks like my "iDeCo poverty" era is confirmed.
Oh right, there's the iDeCo increase too. With NISA already going full tilt, maxing that out as well is rough.
With NISA you can cash out if push comes to shove, but iDeCo locks your money up until age 60 — so you should be careful, yet the pull of the income tax deduction is too strong to resist.
Maybe I should scale back NISA instead…
I think maxing out NISA as fast as possible should be the top priority. Max out iDeCo and it grows too much, and you'll probably get taxed on it at retirement, so that's tricky.
The NISA cap of 18 million yen doesn't disappear, but iDeCo's allowance just vanishes if you don't use it.
If you've got the spare cash, I think prioritizing iDeCo makes more sense.
Apparently they end up falling for romance scams.
It's the people who don't invest who are the timid, jumpy ones — they're too scared to even do index-fund dollar-cost averaging.
Mints all over the world are cranking out money non-stop.
The total money supply only ever goes up.
Just holding onto cash means the cash you have keeps losing value.
Index funds are fine to feel safe about.
Even counting the Lehman Shock, look at it over a 10-year span and the market still goes up.
I see.
I envy you young folks.
Once you hit your late 50s like me, it's too scary to touch.
Guess I'll just quietly dump it into government bonds.
With Japan right now making noise about cutting the consumption tax, there's no way they can push through any major tax hikes for a while, so inflation is only going to keep accelerating.
I've got a bit in government bonds too, but aside from being able to cash out anytime, there's no real value to them.
Well, the interest is about 3 times what it was 3 years ago, though.
Going all-in on risk assets.
Full investment.
I actually file a tax return for that.
As a side business? Being able to write off electricity and PC costs as expenses sounds nice.
…The fact that I even thought that means I should definitely never show up to a gathering like this.
I'd probably get stabbed in the back.
Wow, impressive (said totally deadpan)
You could just use a regular taxable brokerage account on top of it. If you've got the money, use both together.
I think it's plenty. Turn it 10x and that's 180 million yen tax-free. There are tenbagger stocks all over the place.
So what do the people who actually research it buy?
What are you doing then? (lol)
If you ask me, it's the people who don't even bother researching NISA and iDeCo and just skip them who are the idiots.
You don't trust the government, yet you're doing NISA and iDeCo, which the government is pushing? lol
The financial institutions involved are even less trustworthy.
Fixed deposit interest rates are starting to climb, so it's over now.
Inflation and stock gains outpace fixed deposit interest, so even with higher rates nobody's putting money into deposits.
Yeah, it had gotten cheap, huh.
Re: #328
Are you being serious?
The very fact that the government is pushing investments like NISA and iDeCo is proof it's abandoning responsibility for people's futures, however you slice it.
They even came out and said you'd need 20 million yen for retirement.
If anything, anyone not doing this now is basically abandoning responsibility for their own future, right?
Do you seriously think welfare benefits (namapo) as generous as today's will still be around 20 years from now?
How do you even end up with unrealized losses like that?
Background and Key Points of This Topic
Japan’s new NISA program, launched in 2024, expanded the lifetime tax-exempt investment cap to 18 million yen (including a 12-million-yen growth investment quota) and removed the program’s time limit. People racing to fill that cap as fast as possible have come to be called “NISA poor,” and this article covers a networking event called the “NISA Poverty Bar” where such people gather. Expert Nikuyo Nikunokoji sounded the alarm over the extreme belt-tightening involved, calling it “precarious.” On the forum thread, the logic of the fill-it-fast crowd — that maxing out the cap in five years lets compound interest do the work afterward — clashed with critics who said sacrificing a relationship for the sake of investing defeats the purpose. The thread also touched on the structural difference that iDeCo funds are locked up until age 60, while NISA can be cashed out anytime, with opinions split on which to prioritize. What readers may misunderstand is that NISA itself isn’t risky — the real point of debate is whether the “behavior” of rushing to fill the cap at the cost of one’s daily life and relationships is worth it.
*This article is excerpted and summarized from the 5channel (Breaking News+) thread “The Reality of “Extreme Living” Discussed at the “NISA Poverty Bar” — “I Broke Up With My Girlfriend to Max Out My Contributions,” “Investing 110,000 Yen Out of a 200,000 Yen Income”.”
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