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The story
A post went up on 5ch’s “Nandemo Jikkyo G” board asking whether Zhao Yun might be the only famous Three Kingdoms general who can be called both “competent” and “a genuinely good person.” Replies quickly nominated one contender after another — Zhang Liao, Xiahou Dun, Lu Kang, Yu Jin, Sun Jian, Zhuge Jin — but each pick came with a caveat: “competent, but his character’s questionable” or “seems like a good guy, but there’s not much evidence.” No one landed a knockout case. The debate kept circling back to one question: is the judgment based on the official history, or on the novel Romance of the Three Kingdoms, which glorifies Liu Bei’s faction? As with Xu Shu’s famous “flight from Liu Bei” episode, some of these “nice stories” only appear in the Romance — and look quite different once you check the historical record.
What people said
That take is outdated lol
???: "Huh?"
???: "…No, he's not."
Whether he's competent is a gray area
A general who won't betray you and can govern too is valuable
Even if he keeps losing battles
In the official history he's a bit of a liability who kept getting captured by the enemy
Lu Kang seems to fit
Impressive that he let go of the grudge over his father
Xu Shu: "Liu Bei's about to lose… guess I'll bail!"
That's just the Romance hyping him up big time
He's the incompetent guy who got his own mother to kill herself
They had it carved into a tomb mural to shame him (true story)
But what about his boss…?
As a general he was definitely competent
Massively popular as a chivalrous hero
In the Yokomitsu Three Kingdoms manga he comes off as a noisy old man
That was his big brother's doing, that's rough
Is that the whipping-the-corrupt-inspector scene?
Isn't that thanks to Tenchi wo Kurau ("Heaven and Earth," the manga/game)?
Seems like a good guy
"Ch- ch- ch- Chen Gooong——!!"
Gets me every time
it's Zhuge Liang, Lu Xun, and Lu Kang
Even in the original text these three get special treatment
"If my son turns out to be a dud, just take the kingdom yourself."
You know the line, right?
???: "You act all saintly, but if you were really a good guy you'd have done something before that — it's just hypocrisy."
Solid picks actually
Those two are from the whatchamacallit-Ten and whatchamacallit-64 crowd
Cao Cao in Three Kingdoms (the TV drama) makes me cry
Maybe I should watch Three Kingdoms (the TV drama)?
It's true his mother ended up a captive because Liu Bei booked it at full speed from Cao Cao, and even if he wasn't as warm-hearted as the Romance makes him out to be, that doesn't make him a total scumbag
Thing is, his "competent" episodes only exist in the Romance
The top 10 lineup doesn't really change much
Guess human taste is somewhat universal
Liu Bei and "virtuous character," lmaooo
He's the loyalist of loyalists, but does he have a clear "competent" episode?
Ziyu's horse anecdote… eh, maybe not that impressive (Ziyu is Zhuge Jin's courtesy name)
He's the guy Sun Quan actually listens to
Background and Key Points of This Debate
The biggest reason this kind of general-ranking debate splits opinion is that the Three Kingdoms era has two very different types of “source material.” Chen Shou’s official history, the Records of the Three Kingdoms (Sanguozhi), is a historical text based on contemporary records, while the 14th-century novel Romance of the Three Kingdoms dramatizes events with Liu Bei’s faction cast as the heroes. Many of the “good guy” episodes widely known in Japan for figures like Zhao Yun and Xu Shu originate from the Romance, and the official history sometimes paints a rather different picture. Within the thread, multiple generals — such as Xu Shu and Xiahou Dun — came up as cases where the flattering tale in the Romance diverges from the historical record, and opinions split over which source should be the standard for judging “competence” or “good character.” The fact that later works, like Mitsuteru Yokoyama’s manga and Koei’s video games, have shaped how these generals are perceived today is also cited as a reason opinions vary from person to person.
※This article is excerpted and summarized from the 5ch (Nandemo Jikkyo G) thread “The Only Famous Three Kingdoms General Who’s Both Competent and a Good Person Is Zhao Yun.”
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