On 5ch’s “Nandemo Jikkyo G” (Anything Goes Live) board, a thread titled “Baseball’s ‘just try it’ barrier is way too high” drew 41 replies. Posters pointed out that you need a full set of gear (bat, ball, glove), that you can’t even field a proper game without enough players to cover every position, and that batted balls travel far enough to require a lot of open space. Others pushed back, noting that “aside from gym clothes, all the equipment is usually provided” and “you only need two people to play catch.” The discussion eventually expanded into comparisons with soccer and basketball, and even the historical question of why baseball became so entrenched in popularity during the Showa and Heisei eras.
・A lot of gear needed — bat, ball, and enough gloves for everyone playing defense
・Cutting positions leaves the defense full of holes, so you need a big group
・Batted balls travel far, so you need a lot of open space
・Cutting positions leaves the defense full of holes, so you need a big group
・Batted balls travel far, so you need a lot of open space
There's always the school baseball club, no?
Re: #2
Joining a school club is clearly in the "go all-in with real commitment" category.
And a lot of Japanese baseball clubs have this vibe where even thinking about having fun before grinding through brutal practice is basically unthinkable.
So if you just want to casually try it out for fun, I think the barrier is genuinely high.
Joining a school club is clearly in the "go all-in with real commitment" category.
And a lot of Japanese baseball clubs have this vibe where even thinking about having fun before grinding through brutal practice is basically unthinkable.
So if you just want to casually try it out for fun, I think the barrier is genuinely high.
Re: #8
Rubber-ball baseball (nanshiki — the softer ball used in most Japanese school ball) is fine.
Hardball (using a real hard ball) is no joke.
Rubber-ball baseball (nanshiki — the softer ball used in most Japanese school ball) is fine.
Hardball (using a real hard ball) is no joke.
If you're left-handed you're basically doomed. Can't even borrow a glove from anyone, and there's hardly any positions open to you.
If it's just a casual try, everything except your gym clothes is usually already provided as equipment.
That's exactly why the number of players keeps shrinking.
Re: #5
Japanese baseball still has huge spectator popularity thanks to its first-mover advantage.
But precisely because it's been so popular for so long, nobody really noticed the "high barrier to entry" problem, and now it's quietly landed in a crisis.
It's not that pro players are unaware of the shrinking player pool — they do run various initiatives.
But since most of them grew up in an environment where baseball was just naturally around from childhood, their solutions tend to lean toward things like running baseball clinics or building stadiums, which feels kind of narrow and has limited effect.
To actually grow the base of people who casually give it a try, you need an environment where it's easy to play on a whim, day-to-day.
Japanese baseball still has huge spectator popularity thanks to its first-mover advantage.
But precisely because it's been so popular for so long, nobody really noticed the "high barrier to entry" problem, and now it's quietly landed in a crisis.
It's not that pro players are unaware of the shrinking player pool — they do run various initiatives.
But since most of them grew up in an environment where baseball was just naturally around from childhood, their solutions tend to lean toward things like running baseball clinics or building stadiums, which feels kind of narrow and has limited effect.
To actually grow the base of people who casually give it a try, you need an environment where it's easy to play on a whim, day-to-day.
Soccer's basically "the poor man's sport" since all you need is one ball, but baseball's not like that.
If people can't catch and field to at least some minimum level, the whole thing falls apart.
If you just want to mess around, isn't a batting cage enough?
Re: #10
Sad thing is, those places keep shutting down one after another.
Sad thing is, those places keep shutting down one after another.
Re: #10
Re: #13
Sure, batting cages and playing catch have their own depth, but there's a difference between those being your *only* options versus discovering their appeal among many other choices.
Even if it's just amateurs messing around, actually experiencing something in an actual "game" format matters a lot.
Would just juggling a soccer ball or just shooting hoops be fun on its own? You'd still want an actual match, right?
Re: #13
Sure, batting cages and playing catch have their own depth, but there's a difference between those being your *only* options versus discovering their appeal among many other choices.
Even if it's just amateurs messing around, actually experiencing something in an actual "game" format matters a lot.
Would just juggling a soccer ball or just shooting hoops be fun on its own? You'd still want an actual match, right?
You might need gloves, but playing catch only takes two people, no?
Batting's one thing, but you need players who can field at least reasonably well. Otherwise it's just dropped balls and wild throws everywhere, and it won't even look like a game.
Re: #20
That's a big factor too.
Even if you make special rules like not counting balls or banning stolen bases, there's only so far that gets you.
By the way, there's a tradition in beginner games of sticking the weakest fielder in right field batting eighth (nicknamed "raipachi"), but personally I think it's better to put them in center and have both outfielders on either side fully cover for them.
Center's easier to see the ball from, and even if you can't catch flies, you can just aim to have it drop in front of you instead of sailing over your head.
There's still a risk of getting hit by the ball, though — it'd be nice if there was a ball that's a bit safer to get hit by.
Something a little closer to a real baseball than a rubber ball, but still safer, would be ideal.
That's a big factor too.
Even if you make special rules like not counting balls or banning stolen bases, there's only so far that gets you.
By the way, there's a tradition in beginner games of sticking the weakest fielder in right field batting eighth (nicknamed "raipachi"), but personally I think it's better to put them in center and have both outfielders on either side fully cover for them.
Center's easier to see the ball from, and even if you can't catch flies, you can just aim to have it drop in front of you instead of sailing over your head.
There's still a risk of getting hit by the ball, though — it'd be nice if there was a ball that's a bit safer to get hit by.
Something a little closer to a real baseball than a rubber ball, but still safer, would be ideal.
Re: #26
If badminton or table tennis — sports with supposedly low barriers to entry — were actually growing in player numbers, that logic would track.
Also, if you're bringing up soccer and basketball as examples, don't those also need a fair number of people and space?
I'm a weirdo so I actually went through a phase of just doing shooting practice over and over in both soccer and basketball.
If badminton or table tennis — sports with supposedly low barriers to entry — were actually growing in player numbers, that logic would track.
Also, if you're bringing up soccer and basketball as examples, don't those also need a fair number of people and space?
I'm a weirdo so I actually went through a phase of just doing shooting practice over and over in both soccer and basketball.
Re: #30
With soccer or basketball, it's easier to make something resembling a game even with a small number of people, and even if everyone's a total amateur, it somehow still works as a game — more so than baseball.
From a parent's perspective too, parks or gyms where kids can play soccer or basketball have a lower barrier to just go and do it, compared to places to play baseball or softball, so it's easier to let your kid do it as a hobby without joining a formal club.
With soccer or basketball, it's easier to make something resembling a game even with a small number of people, and even if everyone's a total amateur, it somehow still works as a game — more so than baseball.
From a parent's perspective too, parks or gyms where kids can play soccer or basketball have a lower barrier to just go and do it, compared to places to play baseball or softball, so it's easier to let your kid do it as a hobby without joining a formal club.
It'd be rough to just join in casually and find everyone around you is dead serious.
Stuff like this really needs an environment where you can start young.
Stuff like this really needs an environment where you can start young.
Re: #33
Whenever people say school clubs — especially baseball clubs — tend to be too strict, someone always chimes in that there are laid-back clubs too.
But since it's a sport that needs a lot of people, your choice of teams nearby is limited, so the odds of a casual, low-pressure team actually being near you are pretty low.
Whenever people say school clubs — especially baseball clubs — tend to be too strict, someone always chimes in that there are laid-back clubs too.
But since it's a sport that needs a lot of people, your choice of teams nearby is limited, so the odds of a casual, low-pressure team actually being near you are pretty low.
Do batting cages even still exist?
Pretty much wiped out outside city centers, right?
Pretty much wiped out outside city centers, right?
Re: #37
I live in the countryside and there's actually quite a few still around.
I live in the countryside and there's actually quite a few still around.
They've built a ton of baseball fields with tax money, so what's this about there being no place to play?
Re: #38
Baseball fields might look fairly plentiful at first glance, but most of them require advance booking, so they're not places you can just drop by and practice on a whim.
You basically never see the kind of scene where people naturally share out sections of a ball-friendly park among themselves.
So if you want pro players to come up with measures to stop the decline in participation, I'd want them to think about things like: casual shared practice spaces you can just show up to, opportunities for casual hobbyist meetups, inventing small-group formats of baseball, and developing safer equipment for kids.
Something called "Baseball5" was actually invented for this, but playing it barehanded seems a bit too extreme.
https://www.baseball5.jp/
Baseball fields might look fairly plentiful at first glance, but most of them require advance booking, so they're not places you can just drop by and practice on a whim.
You basically never see the kind of scene where people naturally share out sections of a ball-friendly park among themselves.
So if you want pro players to come up with measures to stop the decline in participation, I'd want them to think about things like: casual shared practice spaces you can just show up to, opportunities for casual hobbyist meetups, inventing small-group formats of baseball, and developing safer equipment for kids.
Something called "Baseball5" was actually invented for this, but playing it barehanded seems a bit too extreme.
https://www.baseball5.jp/
If you made it more like a real-life version of that tabletop baseball game (yakyuban), maybe you could get by without fielders.
Though then it just becomes a facilities problem instead.
Though then it just becomes a facilities problem instead.
Re: #40
That idea actually feels like it has some potential.
Fielding is probably the hardest part to clear even the minimum bar for.
That idea actually feels like it has some potential.
Fielding is probably the hardest part to clear even the minimum bar for.
"Equipment costs, blah blah" — same deal. Acting like baseball is the only sport where you can't play unless every condition is perfectly set up, and using that as an excuse for why it's "too high a barrier," is just lame.
Re: #41
It's genuinely true that the barrier is higher than other sports.
That's literally what's being pointed out here.
Sure, other sports also take some effort if you want perfect conditions, but nowhere near as much as baseball — baseball's *minimum* bar is just higher than the rest.
Whether you can even play a game, even a mini one, matters a lot.
Even official soccer matches only require 7 players to count as a game.
It's genuinely true that the barrier is higher than other sports.
That's literally what's being pointed out here.
Sure, other sports also take some effort if you want perfect conditions, but nowhere near as much as baseball — baseball's *minimum* bar is just higher than the rest.
Whether you can even play a game, even a mini one, matters a lot.
Even official soccer matches only require 7 players to count as a game.
Baseball's player numbers have dropped below even basketball, let alone soccer.
At the elementary school level it's only about half of soccer's numbers.
No wonder Asics is pulling out of the baseball business.
At the elementary school level it's only about half of soccer's numbers.
No wonder Asics is pulling out of the baseball business.
Re: #61
The reason "ball-kicking" and "ball-tossing" (aka soccer and basketball) are boring is that the players themselves aren't involved in scoring.
Soccer (lol) and basketball (lol): you score when the ball goes into the goal
→ Only the goal and the ball are actually involved
Baseball: players score by touching a base themselves
→ The players themselves are directly involved in scoring
The reason "ball-kicking" and "ball-tossing" (aka soccer and basketball) are boring is that the players themselves aren't involved in scoring.
Soccer (lol) and basketball (lol): you score when the ball goes into the goal
→ Only the goal and the ball are actually involved
Baseball: players score by touching a base themselves
→ The players themselves are directly involved in scoring
Re: #61
My relative's kid is in middle school, and apparently the soccer club barely has any members these days too.
They said something like the team might not be able to field a squad once the third-years graduate.
Surprisingly, tennis and table tennis clubs apparently have more members.
Baseball and soccer are both sports where basically everyone started as a little kid, so the barrier to starting in middle or high school is probably high.
My relative's kid is in middle school, and apparently the soccer club barely has any members these days too.
They said something like the team might not be able to field a squad once the third-years graduate.
Surprisingly, tennis and table tennis clubs apparently have more members.
Baseball and soccer are both sports where basically everyone started as a little kid, so the barrier to starting in middle or high school is probably high.
The people on this board running their mouths about "why doesn't anyone play baseball" are just using baseball as ammo to bait each other — none of you have the slightest intention of actually joining a pickup baseball game.
Re: #68
I actually have done it.
But what I really felt was how hard it is just to create the opportunity in the first place.
Gathering people with similar enthusiasm who are also easy to actually meet up with is genuinely difficult.
Probably even more so for kids.
On top of that, I really felt that whether or not a "game" format exists makes a huge difference to your motivation for playing catch or batting practice.
A game is also, in a way, an attempt to recreate for yourself the plays you normally watch pro players make.
I actually have done it.
But what I really felt was how hard it is just to create the opportunity in the first place.
Gathering people with similar enthusiasm who are also easy to actually meet up with is genuinely difficult.
Probably even more so for kids.
On top of that, I really felt that whether or not a "game" format exists makes a huge difference to your motivation for playing catch or batting practice.
A game is also, in a way, an attempt to recreate for yourself the plays you normally watch pro players make.
Re: #68
If your only days off are weekdays, joining a game is basically impossible.
If your only days off are weekdays, joining a game is basically impossible.
For amateur soccer these days it's mainly futsal.
Even in the city there are futsal courts.
Even in the city there are futsal courts.
Re: #82
Futsal gives you way more chances to actually touch the ball and you run a lot less, so it's more fun for amateurs just messing around casually.
With soccer you end up spending way too much time just watching the ball and shuffling around doing nothing.
Futsal gives you way more chances to actually touch the ball and you run a lot less, so it's more fun for amateurs just messing around casually.
With soccer you end up spending way too much time just watching the ball and shuffling around doing nothing.
On the flip side, why was baseball so popular during the Showa and Heisei eras anyway?
Re: #90
Re: #95
Well, ever since the Meiji era baseball had this image as "the cutting-edge imported sport from the advanced nation of America," and it caught on with college students first, then spread to a wider range of generations.
I think the big factor is that it took root during an era when there weren't many entertainment options, there were plenty of places you were allowed to play baseball, and there were a lot of kids around.
Re: #95
Well, ever since the Meiji era baseball had this image as "the cutting-edge imported sport from the advanced nation of America," and it caught on with college students first, then spread to a wider range of generations.
I think the big factor is that it took root during an era when there weren't many entertainment options, there were plenty of places you were allowed to play baseball, and there were a lot of kids around.
That said, with just a soft colored ball and a bat you can play without even needing a glove.
Problem is there's basically no parks left these days where kids can play a simplified version of baseball.
Problem is there's basically no parks left these days where kids can play a simplified version of baseball.
Re: #92
The ball flying far is also a bad factor.
You need a lot of space, and it's a pain to go chase it down.
The ball flying far is also a bad factor.
You need a lot of space, and it's a pain to go chase it down.
If you think about it normally, the real question isn't "why is baseball's player base shrinking?" — it's "why did something this much of a hassle dominate for so long in the first place?"
Background and Key Points of This Discussion
The declining number of participants in youth baseball and school baseball clubs in Japan is an area that various sports organizations’ published data and media reports have flagged as shrinking year after year, and this thread can be seen as digging into the background of that trend through the lens of “how high the barrier to entry is.” The debate split mainly into two camps. One side argued that baseball is structurally harder to get into, pointing to how you need a full set of equipment, a large open space, and a minimum number of fielders before it even resembles a real game. The other side saw that as just an excuse, arguing that the sport’s relative appeal has simply declined — with some, like poster #95, flipping the question around to ask “why did something this labor-intensive dominate for so long in the first place?” One point worth clarifying to avoid oversimplifying: while soccer is often described as “no equipment needed, easy to jump into,” there are real differences in the rules themselves — for instance, even official soccer matches only require a minimum of 7 players — so this isn’t purely a clash of attitudes, but also reflects differences in each sport’s formal rules and structure.
*This article is compiled from excerpts and a summary of the 5ch (Nandemo Jikkyo G) thread “[Sad News] Baseball, the “just give it a try” barrier is way too high.”
