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The story
A thread on 5ch heated up around the idea that w-inds. would have sold far better if the old Johnny’s & Associates hadn’t been such a dominant rival at the time. Posters pointed out that dance-and-vocal groups from the same era — w-inds., DA PUMP, Lead, and FLAME — were effectively shut out of appearing on shows like “Music Station” and “HEY!HEY!HEY!” back then. Users also cited the 2023 press conference in which the former Johnny’s agency admitted to working to exclude groups from rival agencies, sparking discussion of the TV industry’s power dynamics at the time. Others pushed back, arguing it simply came down to popularity and talent, and the debate stayed split right to the end.
What people said
Da-iCE's actually done pretty well for themselves, they're on the successful side.
Johnny's admitted it themselves — that they pressured shows like Music Station.
At the September 2023 press conference, Inohara Yoshihiko and others admitted that "there had been moves and tacit consideration aimed at excluding groups from other agencies," and stated they would aim for a fairer environment for TV appearances going forward.
Kohaku's run by Burning, so of course they could get on it. Music Station's different — Johnny's and Tanabe Agency have a sworn-brotherhood pact, so they're locked out there. It's really the Suo faction vs. the Tanabe faction going at it inside the music industry association (Ongeikyo).
So they're on the blacklisting side too then, lol
Not really — back then you got dragged if you didn't produce results. These days it's way easier to fake your way through.
They were just born in the wrong era.
What era are you living in where dance actually gets appreciated, lol
It wasn't "smartphones" — it was the i-mode era.
That's fine though — Johnny's groups were popular online too.
Totally forgot about FLAME. Brings back memories.
Those guys came along way after w-inds., so they wouldn't have been competing for the same lane.
Johnny's talents could pivot into acting and variety shows, but it's a fact that Rising Production's acts had that path blocked off by Johnny's.
EE JUMP's a stretch — the only thing I can even remember is "Otto Totto Natsu da ze."
Either way, it was a rivalry within the Burning group, so Suo profits no matter which side wins. They just lost momentum after Taira Tetsuo got arrested for tax evasion.
w-inds. is still going. The others disbanded.
Lead's still around too.
No way, not SPEED level — SPEED outsold even Morning Musume at their peak.
True, SMAP×SMAP was fun to watch.
Not having their own prime-time variety show was rough. Arashi, SMAP, KinKi Kids, TOKIO, and V6 had it good with their variety shows.
Background and Key Points of This Discussion
It is a matter of public record that, at the September 2023 press conference held by the former Johnny’s & Associates (now SMILE-UP.) in the wake of the sexual abuse scandal, Inohara Yoshihiko admitted — with then-president Higashiyama Noriyuki present — that “there had been moves and tacit consideration aimed at excluding groups from other agencies,” and the thread’s citations are based on this fact. The view raised later in the thread, however — that this was really a power struggle between the Burning Productions and Tanabe Agency factions within the music industry association (Ongeikyo) — is a narrative often repeated within the industry, but it has never been officially confirmed and remains at the level of rumor. Readers can easily conflate two extremes here: “couldn’t get on TV” being equated with “lacked talent,” versus “pressure was the sole cause.” Even within the thread, the camp arguing “it was an era when media exposure directly drove popularity” and the camp arguing “they simply failed to produce results” ran side by side right to the end. As for how widespread flip-phones actually were at the time, or what fan communities really looked like, accounts vary even among those who were there, so there isn’t much solid material to draw a firm conclusion from.
*This article is compiled from excerpts and a summary of the 5ch (Hello! Project board) thread “w-inds. would be huge by now if Johnny’s weren’t around.”
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