Why w-inds. Never Hit It Big: 5ch Blames “Johnny’s Pressure” and Digs Into the TV Politics of the Era

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The story

A thread on 5ch heated up around the idea that w-inds. would have sold far better if the old Johnny’s & Associates hadn’t been such a dominant rival at the time. Posters pointed out that dance-and-vocal groups from the same era — w-inds., DA PUMP, Lead, and FLAME — were effectively shut out of appearing on shows like “Music Station” and “HEY!HEY!HEY!” back then. Users also cited the 2023 press conference in which the former Johnny’s agency admitted to working to exclude groups from rival agencies, sparking discussion of the TV industry’s power dynamics at the time. Others pushed back, arguing it simply came down to popularity and talent, and the debate stayed split right to the end.

What people said

1AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:19
All their early songs were great.
3AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:21
DA PUMP and w-inds. — such a waste in so many ways.
5AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:23
Burning Productions: "Nooo, they got frozen out!" (Burning is itself a notorious agency for freezing out rivals, hence the irony)
6AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:24
Wait, really? They got pushed pretty hard though, no? ("gori-oshi" = heavy-handed promotion)
7AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:24
Nah, they did okay, but even without Johnny's capping their TV appearances they never would've taken over the industry — Johnny's groups and DA PUMP were still around.
8AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:25
People tend to overlook it because of Keita's wife Ayaya (Aya Matsuura), but w-inds. used to be pretty popular back in the day — plenty of guys at the time got into dancing because they looked up to w-inds.
9AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:25
w-inds., DA PUMP, Lead, and Da-iCE all would've sold way more than they actually did if they'd come up in a different era.
27AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:32
Re: #9
Da-iCE's actually done pretty well for themselves, they're on the successful side.
10AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:26
Don't lie and say they couldn't get on TV.
13AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:27
Re: #10
Johnny's admitted it themselves — that they pressured shows like Music Station.
23AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:31
Re: #10
At the September 2023 press conference, Inohara Yoshihiko and others admitted that "there had been moves and tacit consideration aimed at excluding groups from other agencies," and stated they would aim for a fairer environment for TV appearances going forward.
11AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:26
They were on Kohaku [the New Year's Eve music special] and people still count them as blacklisted?
18AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:29
Re: #11
Kohaku's run by Burning, so of course they could get on it. Music Station's different — Johnny's and Tanabe Agency have a sworn-brotherhood pact, so they're locked out there. It's really the Suo faction vs. the Tanabe faction going at it inside the music industry association (Ongeikyo).
20AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:30
Re: #18
So they're on the blacklisting side too then, lol
21AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:31
Back then internet penetration was low to begin with — no smartphones, no social media — so media exposure was directly tied to popularity in that era.
28AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:32
Re: #21
Not really — back then you got dragged if you didn't produce results. These days it's way easier to fake your way through.
24AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:31
Dance gets way more attention now, and male idols get way more attention now too.

They were just born in the wrong era.
30AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:32
Re: #24
What era are you living in where dance actually gets appreciated, lol
34AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:33
Re: #29
It wasn't "smartphones" — it was the i-mode era.
38AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:36
Re: #34
That's fine though — Johnny's groups were popular online too.
35AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:33
FLAME had some good songs too.
54AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:47
Re: #35
Totally forgot about FLAME. Brings back memories.
42AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:37
Either way, it would've been tough with EXILE around, and then TVXQ and BIGBANG showed up too.
48AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:41
Re: #42
Those guys came along way after w-inds., so they wouldn't have been competing for the same lane.
45AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:39
Their early boyish charm faded pretty quickly, so who knows. Say what you will, but Johnny's was genuinely good at letting their young debut kids age gracefully into their image.
46AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:40
Re: #45
Johnny's talents could pivot into acting and variety shows, but it's a fact that Rising Production's acts had that path blocked off by Johnny's.
47AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:40
Same category as EE JUMP.
64AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:58
Re: #47
EE JUMP's a stretch — the only thing I can even remember is "Otto Totto Natsu da ze."
53AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:47
They did make it onto the 2002 Kohaku, but then EXILE started blowing up from 2003 onward.
56AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:49
Re: #53
Either way, it was a rivalry within the Burning group, so Suo profits no matter which side wins. They just lost momentum after Taira Tetsuo got arrested for tax evasion.
65AnonymousSep 16, 2026 23:59
Are w-inds., Lead, and FLAME still around today?
69AnonymousSep 17, 2026 00:00
Re: #65
w-inds. is still going. The others disbanded.
70AnonymousSep 17, 2026 00:00
Re: #65
Lead's still around too.
71AnonymousSep 17, 2026 00:00
Without Johnny's pressure, w-inds. would've been the male version of SPEED.
74AnonymousSep 17, 2026 00:01
Re: #71
No way, not SPEED level — SPEED outsold even Morning Musume at their peak.
80AnonymousSep 17, 2026 00:07
Johnny's strength is that their talents can do variety shows.
96AnonymousSep 17, 2026 00:35
Re: #80
True, SMAP×SMAP was fun to watch.
87AnonymousSep 17, 2026 00:17
Being shut out of Music Station, Utaban, and HEY!HEY!HEY! in that era was brutal. Once Johnny's finally lifted the ban and appeared on HEY!HEY!HEY!, the Rising Production regulars who used to be fixtures there disappeared — which made Johnny's pressure visible for everyone to see.
89AnonymousSep 17, 2026 00:21
Re: #87
Not having their own prime-time variety show was rough. Arashi, SMAP, KinKi Kids, TOKIO, and V6 had it good with their variety shows.

Background and Key Points of This Discussion

It is a matter of public record that, at the September 2023 press conference held by the former Johnny’s & Associates (now SMILE-UP.) in the wake of the sexual abuse scandal, Inohara Yoshihiko admitted — with then-president Higashiyama Noriyuki present — that “there had been moves and tacit consideration aimed at excluding groups from other agencies,” and the thread’s citations are based on this fact. The view raised later in the thread, however — that this was really a power struggle between the Burning Productions and Tanabe Agency factions within the music industry association (Ongeikyo) — is a narrative often repeated within the industry, but it has never been officially confirmed and remains at the level of rumor. Readers can easily conflate two extremes here: “couldn’t get on TV” being equated with “lacked talent,” versus “pressure was the sole cause.” Even within the thread, the camp arguing “it was an era when media exposure directly drove popularity” and the camp arguing “they simply failed to produce results” ran side by side right to the end. As for how widespread flip-phones actually were at the time, or what fan communities really looked like, accounts vary even among those who were there, so there isn’t much solid material to draw a firm conclusion from.

*This article is compiled from excerpts and a summary of the 5ch (Hello! Project board) thread “w-inds. would be huge by now if Johnny’s weren’t around.”

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