The ‘Sakamoto Ryoma Did Nothing’ Theory: 5ch Users Fire Back With Primary Sources

From our other sites

The story

A debate broke out on 5ch’s “Whatever Live” board (なんでも実況G) over the theory that “Sakamoto Ryoma actually did nothing.” According to one post in the thread, the theory traces back to 2017, when media outlets conflated a research group’s proposal to streamline textbook terminology with a historian’s book published around the same time, mistakenly reporting that “Ryoma will disappear from textbooks.” In response, users cited historical records — including his signature on the Satsuma-Choshu Alliance and his role in arms imports — and the thread largely concluded that “saying he did nothing” is an overstatement. Still, some argued he wasn’t really at the center of the Meiji Restoration, leaving opinions divided.

What people said

1AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:04
If anything, he did nothing.
2AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:05
What's Takeda Tetsuya gonna do about this? (actor/musician famous for his Ryoma fandom)
3AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:05
Re: #2
He's got "the kanji for 'person' is two strokes leaning on each other…" going for him, so he's unfazed (referencing Takeda Tetsuya's famous line from Kinpachi-sensei)
5AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:07
A business genius who traded with Glover & Co. — a subsidiary of Jardine Matheson, which was backed by the Rothschild family — importing surplus weapons from the American Civil War for next to nothing, talking Glover into extending massive credit by promising there was demand to repay it, buying up huge quantities of arms, and ultimately driving Glover into bankruptcy.
6AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:07
That's the downside of Takeda Tetsuya's manga 'Oi! Ryoma' (a romanticized Ryoma biopic manga).
8AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:09
Glover, bankrupted because of Sakamoto Ryoma, couldn't return to his home country and stayed in Japan, where the Mitsubishi zaibatsu ended up taking care of him.
9AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:10
Wasn't the general consensus that nobody really knew what he did, he was just the guy who showed up everywhere?
17AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:16
So in 2017 the Council for the Promotion of Cooperation between High Schools and Universities in History Education proposed splitting history textbook terms into "basic" and "advanced" categories because there was just too much to memorize.
Under that proposal, figures like Sakamoto Ryoma, Saigo Takamori, Okubo Toshimichi, Kido Takayoshi, and Iwakura Tomomi got moved to the "advanced" side.
Then, coincidentally that same year, historical writer (not an actual researcher) Kozo Kaku published a book arguing "Ryoma wasn't really a big deal."
The book was basically just a fun, casual read, but the media combined these two things and reported "Sakamoto Ryoma didn't do much, so he's being cut from textbooks."
That report went viral, and it seems some people took it at face value.
In the end, the council's chairman came out and said "We never said that, the reporting is wrong," which put the story to rest — and Ryoma was never actually removed from textbooks.
But apparently the misunderstanding still lingers.


Or so I heard.
51AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:33
He bought up tons of guns and warships under the Satsuma domain's name on behalf of the Choshu domain, right?
Sakamoto Ryoma was basically an arms dealer.
74AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:42
Re: #51
It's solid historical fact that his trading company Kameyama Shachu contributed to the arms-and-rice trade between Satsuma and Choshu and helped broker their relationship.
Fiction just added extra embellishment on top of that — embellishment doesn't mean the whole thing is a lie.
60AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:35
I mean, if he really did nothing, why would anyone bother assassinating him?
72AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:41
Re: #60
Honestly the only one with a real motive to kill him is Glover, who he bankrupted.
78AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:47
I saw somewhere that when it came to figuring out how to get Glover & Co.'s weapons to Choshu, it would've been tough without Sakamoto Ryoma.
84AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:50
Re: #78
Back then no one else had a ship they could move around freely.
But if the rifles hadn't gotten through, they probably couldn't have repelled the Second Choshu Expedition, so that might've been his single best move.
82AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:50
There are historical records showing he was present at the signing of the Satsuma-Choshu Alliance and even signed it himself — if that's "doing nothing" then that's hilarious.
Some guy who supposedly did nothing just shows up out of nowhere and signs off on it? That's terrifying.
86AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:54
Re: #82
Wasn't it that Katsura Kogoro of the Choshu domain asked him afterward to endorse it in writing?
I recall reading that he just headed straight back to the Teradaya inn in Fushimi once he'd witnessed the alliance get signed.
And that's when he ran into the Teradaya Incident — the Fushimi magistrate's office raided the place and he fled to the Satsuma domain residence.
94AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:58
Re: #82
Though there's also a theory that the Satsuma-Choshu Alliance was basically already settled before that, and he just showed up for the after-party.
Well, he was known for being good at winning people over, at least.
87AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:55
He's not counted among the "Three Great Nobles" or "Ten Great Men" of the Restoration. His posthumous court rank, Junior Fourth Rank, was handed out to dozens of people — so in baseball terms, he's not quite Nagashima, Oh, Ichiro, or Otani tier, more like a Hara or Kiyohara-level patriot, one notch below the very best.
89AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:56
Re: #87
Part of that is because he was from Tosa.
Choshu and Satsuma hogged all the credit.
And on top of that, he was a masterless ronin who'd abandoned his domain.
88AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:55
Threads about the "Ryoma did nothing" theory sometimes go the way this one did, correcting course with "no wait, he actually did this stuff" — but other times they just end with "Ryoma sucked, dude was nobody, lol."
93AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:58
Re: #88
Even among posters on this board (なんG), literacy levels vary.
96AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:59
Re: #88
There's just too much of a paper trail for "he did nothing" to hold up.
He may not have been in as important a position as people claim, sure.
Nakaoka (Shintaro) was actually more involved in the Restoration itself.
95AnonymousSep 3, 2026 16:58
I read a biography once — it was mostly just him tagging along with important people and somehow winning them over. Whether he actually did anything wasn't really clear.
Though my memory's fuzzy on it.
100AnonymousSep 3, 2026 17:01
Re: #95
He's the rare type who's on good terms with everyone, so just having him around smooths things over.
98AnonymousSep 3, 2026 17:00
Where there's smoke, there's fire.
The records prove he showed up at historical moments all over the place, so saying he did nothing is an overstatement.
The weapons he bought from Glover surely helped topple the shogunate too.
109AnonymousSep 3, 2026 17:05
Re: #98
"Helped" is an understatement — that was basically the spark that lit the whole Restoration.
Non-samurai militia wielding serious firepower changed everything.
If they hadn't been able to counter the Second Choshu Expedition, the whole framework of the Restoration might've turned out differently.
99AnonymousSep 3, 2026 17:00
If you take Ryoma away from Kochi, all that's left is bonito.
102AnonymousSep 3, 2026 17:01
Re: #99
There's still Kyuji Fujikawa (the pro baseball pitcher).
101AnonymousSep 3, 2026 17:01
"I wish to wash Japan clean" — he actually said that.
104AnonymousSep 3, 2026 17:03
Re: #101
Though apparently that was just an empty prayer, not something he actually did.
108AnonymousSep 3, 2026 17:05
Besides, they put up a statue of him back in the early Showa era — that alone means he can't have done nothing.
112AnonymousSep 3, 2026 17:06
Re: #108
He was famous enough that they even used a propaganda story about him appearing in the Empress's dream.

Background and Key Points of the Debate

The “Sakamoto Ryoma did nothing” theory reportedly originated in 2017, when the Council for the Promotion of Cooperation between High Schools and Universities in History Education proposed streamlining textbook terminology around the same time that historical writer Kozo Kaku happened to publish a general-audience book arguing that “Ryoma didn’t really do much.” The media conflated the two and reported that he would “disappear from textbooks.” The council’s chairman later denied this, saying “we never said any such thing,” and in fact Ryoma’s entry was never removed from textbooks. In the thread, users cited action after action backed by primary historical sources — his presence and signature at the signing of the Satsuma-Choshu Alliance, his involvement in arms imports to the Choshu domain through his trading company Kameyama Shachu — and the prevailing view was that “he did nothing” is an overstatement. At the same time, some pointed out that Ryoma isn’t counted among the “Ten Great Men” or “Three Great Nobles” of the Restoration and wasn’t as central to politics as his later image suggests, so opinions didn’t fully converge.

*This article is compiled as an excerpt and summary of the 5ch (“Whatever Live” board) thread “[Sad News] Sakamoto Ryoma Never Actually Said “The Dawn of Japan, Ze Yo” (a famous line attributed to him in Tosa dialect).”

Comments

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *