From our other sites
The story
A software engineer who had worked at Google’s Japan subsidiary for over a decade, steadily climbing the ranks along the way, was fired the month after receiving a high performance rating — abruptly judged to have ‘markedly poor work conduct.’ Their annual salary was 14.7 million yen. The stated deciding factor was failure to meet an abstractly worded goal of ‘demonstrating L5-level leadership,’ set against the backdrop of the Performance Improvement Program (PIP) that has spread among foreign-affiliated companies. On 5ch, some argued this is simply to be expected at meritocratic foreign firms, while others pointed out that the company would be at a disadvantage in a wrongful-dismissal lawsuit precisely because of the high salary involved — sparking a broader debate over the merits of Japan’s dismissal regulations.
Promoted again and again over more than ten years, climbing steadily up the ranks — until one day, a software engineer at Google’s Japan subsidiary (Google Japan G.K.) was suddenly pushed out of their job, deemed to have ‘markedly poor’ work conduct.
The deciding factor in the dismissal was the ‘unmet’ status of a ‘goal’ set in abstract terms: ‘should demonstrate leadership at the L5 level.’ Their annual salary was 14.7 million yen. In the performance review just before the dismissal, they had been rated highly, receiving a ‘Significant Impact (S)’ rating.
Behind it all was the ‘PIP’ (Performance Improvement Program), a system increasingly adopted at foreign-affiliated companies and elsewhere.
Source: news.livedoor.com / Original article here
What people said
Of course you get fired if you're useless
Of course incompetent people get low pay
Couldn't they have just demoted him instead?
That includes communication skills and people skills though
Even if you're highly capable, you're no good if you can't get along with others
Being disliked by those around you is also bad
Not following the rules is bad too
I can't tell the difference between 'useless' and 'incompetent'
If they're the same thing, which is it — fired, or just underpaid?
He's a high earner so he could probably afford to fight it even if the lawsuit drags on
He'd have an overwhelming advantage, so the company would be in trouble if it went to court
He could win a wrongful dismissal suit, but he'd go back to work, get rated as underperforming, get demoted, and his salary would drop anyway…
> Annual salary was 14.7 million yen
That's less than I expected.
He's brilliant enough that 100 of us combined couldn't match him, yet his salary isn't 100x ours.
You'd think he'd be pulling in tens of millions of yen a year.
Same here
I thought, 'wait, isn't that supposed to be his monthly salary?'
And in America, they say you can suddenly be told you're fired one day,
and a security guard with a gun tells you 'get out of the building right now, we'll ship your personal belongings later,' and you're immediately escorted out.
I can picture it now — someone walking out clutching a cardboard box stuffed with their belongings (lol)
Even with an 'annual salary,' some people get let go right away, so it's not like everyone actually collects the full amount.
Even at a foreign company, as long as the employment contract is in Japan, Japanese law applies.
Google will bring in top-tier lawyers
And they've probably got plenty more undisclosed reasons in their back pocket to throw out one after another
Global companies are just too powerful
Well, they don't even need to fire him
They can just demote him, tank his ratings, and slash his pay to nothing
The conclusion is right, but it's really just that salarymen who out-earn the judge don't win labor lawsuits.
Even IBM lost a labor case here
Even Google can't pull this off in Japan
Ah, like 'Pip Elekiban' (a pun on the famous pain-relief patch brand)
But I still got fired.
That's just how foreign companies are.
Basically it means you weren't worth your paycheck
Typical shitty foreign company
Exactly
When you take a job at a foreign company, getting fired is something you know going in
In exchange, raises come faster and pay is higher than at a Japanese company — it's a trade-off baked into the deal
So suing to demand Japanese-company-level treatment once you actually get fired seems like a bad move to me lol
can't they imagine what would happen if you got fired while paying off a mortgage and raising kids?
If you work at an unstable company,
don't take out a mortgage
Worst case, move in with your or your wife's parents
Being easy to fire also means it's easy to quit yourself
A company that can fire easily also hires mid-career easily
In a country like Japan where getting fired ruins your life,
it's hell — you have to grit your teeth and keep working at a company that doesn't suit you forever, even if you're depressed
Whereas in the West, you can easily leave a company that doesn't fit
and pick one that does, which boosts motivation and productivity — nothing but upsides 😁
Mortgages still work fine in America despite that
Japan could just switch to an American-style mortgage system
That's just going to go out of control
Apparently humans still check it, at least nominally
but the actual work is entirely outsourced to AI
Executive: 'Tell me how to grow our company'
AI: 'Fire the current executive'
If your boss doesn't like you, that's just how it goes
Foreign companies are actually worse in that regard
People say JTCs (old-school Japanese companies) are rotten with organizational dysfunction, but foreign firms are on another level
No wonder it's only the cutting-edge companies that don't put out garbage products and services
Meritocracy? As long as you deliver results it's fine?
Yeah right
That boss gets fired too if he doesn't deliver results
so if a subordinate is genuinely capable, he won't fire them no matter how badly they clash personally
Just my gut feeling, but that's an extremely rare case
It's rare for someone to be truly irreplaceable
It's common enough in 'Merica, but…
Apparently at US-affiliated foreign companies, HQ back in the States holds all the HR authority, so there's zero 'Japan' factored in
Even foreign companies have to comply with Japanese law
It's just that, being foreign-affiliated, firings are still common, and employees take the job knowing that going in
Background and Key Points of the Debate
PIP (Performance Improvement Program) is a system adopted mainly by foreign-affiliated companies, known as a mechanism that imposes improvement goals on low-rated employees and leads to dismissal or a recommendation to resign if those goals aren’t met. This case drew attention because the employee’s most recent rating before dismissal had been high — a ‘Significant Impact (S)’ — and because failure to meet an abstract goal of ‘demonstrating L5-level leadership’ was used as the grounds for firing them. In the thread, opinions split between those who saw this as simply expected at meritocratic foreign firms, and those who argued that since working in Japan means the dismissal regulations under the Labor Contract Act apply, the company ends up more disadvantaged in a lawsuit the higher the employee’s salary is. That said, even when a court does rule a dismissal invalid, it’s not unusual for the employee to return to the workplace only to keep receiving low ratings and see their salary drop anyway — a nuance that tended to get overlooked in the replies, since winning the case doesn’t necessarily mean getting one’s treatment restored.
*This article is excerpted and summarized from the 5ch (News Speed+) thread ‘Google Engineer Earning 14.7 Million Yen a Year Suddenly Fired 👨💻 — Why a High Rating Flipped to ‘Markedly Poor’ the Next Month.’
Leave a Reply