The University of Tokyo’s Research Center for Advanced Science and Technology, Aisin, and battery storage startup ARM Technologies announced they succeeded in a demonstration experiment transporting hydrogen at room temperature and normal pressure, using a liquid mixed with hydrogen-absorbing alloy powder.
On 5ch, some were surprised the method falls outside regulations for high-pressure gas and hazardous materials, while others questioned its efficiency (“if it can’t exceed what the absorbing alloy itself can hold, the transportable amount must be tiny”), and discussion also turned to the cost of producing the hydrogen itself, whether via nuclear power or solar.
Hydrogen Transported at Room Temperature and Pressure — University of Tokyo, Aisin, and Others Succeed in Demonstration Experiment
The University of Tokyo’s Research Center for Advanced Science and Technology, battery storage startup ARM Technologies (Sagamihara City), and Aisin announced they succeeded in a demonstration experiment with a liquid capable of transporting hydrogen at room temperature and normal pressure.
Hydrogen generated from solar panel electricity was stored in a special liquid, which could then be safely transported.
Source: nikkei.com / Original article here
React it with oxygen in the air and it becomes a stable liquid at room temperature and pressure, so it's easier to transport.
>>2
If that's really the punchline, I'll subscribe to the Nikkei lol
If that's really the punchline, I'll subscribe to the Nikkei lol
>Transported hydrogen using public transportation = photo courtesy of Professor Tatsuoki Kono, University of Tokyo
I was like 'is this really safe?' so I looked it up, and turns out it's exempt from regulation:
・Liquid state at room temp and pressure
・Water-based and non-flammable
・Not classified as high-pressure gas, hazardous material, or deleterious substance
I was like 'is this really safe?' so I looked it up, and turns out it's exempt from regulation:
・Liquid state at room temp and pressure
・Water-based and non-flammable
・Not classified as high-pressure gas, hazardous material, or deleterious substance
>>4
Nah, there's no regulation because the technology didn't exist yet — if it turns out this could fill a tunnel with hydrogen or something dangerous, they'll just amend the law, right?
Nah, there's no regulation because the technology didn't exist yet — if it turns out this could fill a tunnel with hydrogen or something dangerous, they'll just amend the law, right?
It'd be great if extracting the hydrogen doesn't take much energy.
The issue is that the liquid itself becomes a huge dead weight, but handling gets easier and costs go down, so the question is how much that offsets it.
The issue is that the liquid itself becomes a huge dead weight, but handling gets easier and costs go down, so the question is how much that offsets it.
>>5
If room temp/pressure works, you could use water pipes for short-to-medium distances.
Build large storage facilities, ship it in bulk by tanker, then supply it via pipe to the actual point of use — that should cut transport costs a lot.
Kind of like how city gas works.
If room temp/pressure works, you could use water pipes for short-to-medium distances.
Build large storage facilities, ship it in bulk by tanker, then supply it via pipe to the actual point of use — that should cut transport costs a lot.
Kind of like how city gas works.
Japan should just go all-in on hydrogen engines.
Because of hydrogen embrittlement, fuel cells and motors are probably better than an engine with exposed metal parts.
Guess we're on hold until natural hydrogen (naturally occurring geological hydrogen) can be commercialized.
>>10
Making it with nuclear reactors is the cheapest and most stable supply.
Making it with nuclear reactors is the cheapest and most stable supply.
If we could store surplus daytime solar power as hydrogen, it'd pay off easily.
Right now there's no way to store it, so some operators are actually told to stop generating more power during the day.
It'd be great if they could just store the excess instead.
Right now there's no way to store it, so some operators are actually told to stop generating more power during the day.
It'd be great if they could just store the excess instead.
>>12
If we started using it at the same scale as gasoline today, that wouldn't be nearly enough.
If we started using it at the same scale as gasoline today, that wouldn't be nearly enough.
Saw in another article there's tech to turn hydrogen into a sponge-like solid for transport.
Pour water on it and it releases hydrogen that can power a car.
Pour water on it and it releases hydrogen that can power a car.
So it's an application of hydrogen-absorbing alloys?
Once you've extracted the hydrogen from the liquid with the dissolved powder, can you actually get the leftover material back out of an FCEV or hydrogen engine car's tank cleanly?
Once you've extracted the hydrogen from the liquid with the dissolved powder, can you actually get the leftover material back out of an FCEV or hydrogen engine car's tank cleanly?
There's no info at all on what volume/capacity you could actually transport this way.
If you carry it as a normal-pressure gas instead of high-pressure gas, you wouldn't need reinforced containers, right?
Though there'd still be a fire risk.
If you carry it as a normal-pressure gas instead of high-pressure gas, you wouldn't need reinforced containers, right?
Though there'd still be a fire risk.
So they transported it as a hydrogen solution?
💡 What if you dissolved it in gasoline — could you use it as-is!?
💡 What if you dissolved it in gasoline — could you use it as-is!?
Clueless old farts criticizing and nitpicking without even doing their own research.
https://www.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp/ja/news/report/page_00446.html
https://www.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp/ja/news/report/page_00446.html
>>23
Looking at >>21, seems like hydrogen-absorbing alloys can hit about 40% capacity at room temp and pressure.
Looking at >>21, seems like hydrogen-absorbing alloys can hit about 40% capacity at room temp and pressure.
>>24
Looked into it — turns out there are hydrogen-absorbing alloys with plenty of performance at room temp and pressure, like this one:
https://www.ostec.or.jp/nmc/ndb/cgi-bin/HYD/GIF/F1413.html
The table linked in >>21 doesn't spell that out properly.
Looked into it — turns out there are hydrogen-absorbing alloys with plenty of performance at room temp and pressure, like this one:
https://www.ostec.or.jp/nmc/ndb/cgi-bin/HYD/GIF/F1413.html
The table linked in >>21 doesn't spell that out properly.
>Battery storage startup ARM Technologies (Sagamihara City)
I was wondering why a battery startup was doing something unrelated to batteries, but I guess it's a battery that uses this liquid.
But then —
>The liquid used in the experiment was made by powdering a 'hydrogen-absorbing alloy,' which stores hydrogen by adsorbing it onto metal, and dispersing it in the liquid
— that's not exceeding the performance of hydrogen-absorbing alloys, so at normal pressure the amount of hydrogen it can actually hold would be tiny. Isn't this pointless?
I was wondering why a battery startup was doing something unrelated to batteries, but I guess it's a battery that uses this liquid.
But then —
>The liquid used in the experiment was made by powdering a 'hydrogen-absorbing alloy,' which stores hydrogen by adsorbing it onto metal, and dispersing it in the liquid
— that's not exceeding the performance of hydrogen-absorbing alloys, so at normal pressure the amount of hydrogen it can actually hold would be tiny. Isn't this pointless?
Read closely and it's basically 'we crushed a sponge into powder and threw it in.'
>>25
You might not know this, but hydrogen is a gas at room temperature and pressure.
You might not know this, but hydrogen is a gas at room temperature and pressure.
Producing hydrogen takes a massive amount of energy, so the more it's used, the faster fossil resources get depleted.
And of course it increases the country's CO2 emissions.
This research center just wants to ride the trend to get funding. What idiots.
And of course it increases the country's CO2 emissions.
This research center just wants to ride the trend to get funding. What idiots.
>>27
Right?
>>11
If you ignore the risk of a large-scale meltdown disaster and the cost of processing high-level radioactive waste, sure, that's true.
>>5
The table linked in >>21 doesn't even compare that either — even though MCH (methylcyclohexane, a common liquid hydrogen carrier) has a much lower specific gravity.
Right?
>>11
If you ignore the risk of a large-scale meltdown disaster and the cost of processing high-level radioactive waste, sure, that's true.
>>5
The table linked in >>21 doesn't even compare that either — even though MCH (methylcyclohexane, a common liquid hydrogen carrier) has a much lower specific gravity.
Hydrogen's light, so why not just stuff it into a big balloon and float it through the sky?
If it's only a tiny amount, there's no point, and for mass transport, liquefying it would be better.
For fixed-point delivery, city gas pipelines are already enough.
I just can't picture the actual use case.
For fixed-point delivery, city gas pipelines are already enough.
I just can't picture the actual use case.
Practical, widespread use of hydrogen vehicles is still a work in progress.
It's for storing surplus power or leftover energy, right?
What's with the 'it increases environmental impact' complaints lol
What's with the 'it increases environmental impact' complaints lol
They use hydrogen-absorbing alloy as a battery electrode and dip it in liquid to generate electricity, so I guess the idea is: just mix it into the liquid and transport it as liquid from the start.
They crush the hydrogen-absorbing alloy, mix it with an electrolyte into a paste-like liquid, and transport that — energy density is apparently around 300Wh/L.
Come to think of it, you don't hear about hydrogen-absorbing alloys much anymore.
>>45
Uh, this IS a hydrogen-absorbing alloy though.
Uh, this IS a hydrogen-absorbing alloy though.
There's stuff like putting hydrogen-absorbing alloy in a ~10-atmosphere tank to make a space-saving hydrogen tank.
Things like that use hydrogen-absorbing alloy as a component, but nowadays the goal is practical implementation as a more user-friendly system, so it doesn't come up as a topic on its own anymore.
Things like that use hydrogen-absorbing alloy as a component, but nowadays the goal is practical implementation as a more user-friendly system, so it doesn't come up as a topic on its own anymore.
>>47
Using a hydrogen-absorbing alloy that works at room temperature and pressure instead of a 10-atmosphere tank is exactly what nickel-metal hydride batteries — like Sanyo's Eneloop — do.
Using a hydrogen-absorbing alloy that works at room temperature and pressure instead of a 10-atmosphere tank is exactly what nickel-metal hydride batteries — like Sanyo's Eneloop — do.
*This article is compiled from excerpts and a summary of the 5ch (Science News+) thread: Hydrogen Transported at Room Temperature and Pressure — University of Tokyo, Aisin, and Others Succeed in Demonstration Experiment.
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