Uehara Koji naming Saito Masaki, Saito Kazumi, and Tanaka Masahiro as his “Top 3 Aces Since the Heisei Era” became a hot topic on 5ch.
In the thread, commenters pushed back one after another in favor of Nomo Hideo, Darvish Yu, and Yamamoto Yoshinobu, opinions split over whether an “ace” should be judged by win totals or by quality of pitching, and the conversation eventually derailed into a debate over NPB’s popularity in the 1980s.
Nomo, Darvish, and Yamamoto, right? 😅
Win totals don't even matter, do they
>>6
Wins and losses matter most, though
Wins and losses matter most, though
>>6
Even pitchers who supposedly get "zero run support" rarely actually get zero — usually they get handed a 1- or 2-run lead and immediately cough it right back up. Kanamaru's the textbook case.
Even pitchers who supposedly get "zero run support" rarely actually get zero — usually they get handed a 1- or 2-run lead and immediately cough it right back up. Kanamaru's the textbook case.
More than anything, my image of an "ace" is the guy who's the top of the rotation for years, going head-to-head with the other team's ace over and over — Nomo, Matsuzaka, Darvish, that type. In that sense, I didn't watch it live, but Egawa in '81-'82 was insane — he kept facing the other team's #1 starter nonstop and completed almost every game.
>>11
Baseball's popularity was at its lowest point while that guy was actually playing, though
Baseball's popularity was at its lowest point while that guy was actually playing, though
>>12
No need to force yourself to sound like an expert
No need to force yourself to sound like an expert
>>12
The '80s were when baseball was at its most popular. What are you even talking about?
The '80s were when baseball was at its most popular. What are you even talking about?
>>13
After Oh and Nagashima retired, the stars were gone and things got gloomy. That was the Giants' "dark age," right? Popularity only picked back up once Matsui showed up.
After Oh and Nagashima retired, the stars were gone and things got gloomy. That was the Giants' "dark age," right? Popularity only picked back up once Matsui showed up.
>>17
People were sick of the Giants dominating everything during their V9 run — once the tables turned and Hiroshima rose up, players outside the Giants started getting nationwide popularity too. The late '70s through the '80s were the golden age of NPB popularity.
People were sick of the Giants dominating everything during their V9 run — once the tables turned and Hiroshima rose up, players outside the Giants started getting nationwide popularity too. The late '70s through the '80s were the golden age of NPB popularity.
>>17
What world are you living in where the Giants had no popularity between the O-N retirement and Matsui joining? That gap WAS the peak.
What world are you living in where the Giants had no popularity between the O-N retirement and Matsui joining? That gap WAS the peak.
Darvish and Yamamoto both got hit hard in pretty important spots, though
>>16
Guys like that show up every year. Same level as Tigers pitchers like Murakami or Takahashi. If you don't win 20 games, you're not an ace.
Guys like that show up every year. Same level as Tigers pitchers like Murakami or Takahashi. If you don't win 20 games, you're not an ace.
>>16
Both of them ended up pitching in the World Series though. Judging them just by the "got hit hard" impression is tunnel vision.
Both of them ended up pitching in the World Series though. Judging them just by the "got hit hard" impression is tunnel vision.
The "will never bring up Ohtani" guy
>>22
Is there actually anyone who'd bring up Ohtani here?
Is there actually anyone who'd bring up Ohtani here?
>>22
Nobody would bring him up
Nobody would bring him up
>>22
How much has he even pitched? He's supposedly a pitcher first, but he hasn't held down a rotation spot for the Dodgers three years running.
How much has he even pitched? He's supposedly a pitcher first, but he hasn't held down a rotation spot for the Dodgers three years running.
Saito Kazumi really only had 2 full seasons though. You can't put him in the same tier as Saito Masaki or Tanaka Ma-kun. Honestly Uehara himself would be more deserving. Is this guy tough on others but underrates himself too?
>>24
It's about substance, not stats. Saito Kazumi WAS the word "dominant" in pitcher form. I also think he's the number one since Heisei.
It's about substance, not stats. Saito Kazumi WAS the word "dominant" in pitcher form. I also think he's the number one since Heisei.
The Big Five aces: Nomo, Darvish, Ma-kun, Yamamoto, and Matsuzaka
The fact that Imanaka gets brought up as another candidate suggests people are going more by the "image" of an ace. But if that's the criteria, I'd think Darvish should qualify even more.
>>30
Darvish doesn't even have a league-leading win total. Even Aoyagi has won it twice.
Darvish doesn't even have a league-leading win total. Even Aoyagi has won it twice.
>>28
Nah, that's only true for part of it. What were Pacific League attendance numbers like?
Nah, that's only true for part of it. What were Pacific League attendance numbers like?
>>33
Lol, so you're admitting the Central League was at its peak
Lol, so you're admitting the Central League was at its peak
>>33
During the Giants' V9 era, the Pacific League was basically treated as a punching bag reserved for the All-Star Game and Japan Series — about as unpopular as it gets.
During the Giants' V9 era, the Pacific League was basically treated as a punching bag reserved for the All-Star Game and Japan Series — about as unpopular as it gets.
Funny how Kudo and Yamamoto Masa — guys who never come up first in these conversations — actually have the most wins in recent memory.
>>36
Kudo I get — he was a genuine ace for Daiei. But with Yamamoto Masa, you just can't shake the "second option" feel. Part of that's on the Chunichi Dragons too, honestly, since you can name better pitchers than him for pretty much any stretch of time.
Kudo I get — he was a genuine ace for Daiei. But with Yamamoto Masa, you just can't shake the "second option" feel. Part of that's on the Chunichi Dragons too, honestly, since you can name better pitchers than him for pretty much any stretch of time.
Classic case of just wanting someone to say "You'd make the list too, Uehara-san"
>>37
🤣🤣🤣
🤣🤣🤣
Is leaving out Darvish just jealousy?
>>38
Darvish isn't quite on that level
Darvish isn't quite on that level
Not mentioning Matsuzaka is so on-brand for Uehara, it's great
>>41
Very fitting for Uehara, who's clearly still super jealous of Matsuzaka
Very fitting for Uehara, who's clearly still super jealous of Matsuzaka
I think Yamamoto Yoshinobu is the greatest pitcher ever. The overall level is higher now than it was back in Darvish's prime.
>>90
Back in Yoshinobu's day there weren't any decent hitters in the Pacific League though
Back in Yoshinobu's day there weren't any decent hitters in the Pacific League though
>>95
I'm talking about after he went to MLB
I'm talking about after he went to MLB
>>95
Ah, so that explains why prime Kaneko Chihiro felt more like Orix's true ace
Ah, so that explains why prime Kaneko Chihiro felt more like Orix's true ace
>>83
Both Sugano and Uehara — don't you feel like a Giants ace needs one or two more years at that level? They're just a bit short of being the clear face of an era.
Both Sugano and Uehara — don't you feel like a Giants ace needs one or two more years at that level? They're just a bit short of being the clear face of an era.
>>91
If neither Sugano nor Uehara can be candidates, then there's nobody else left
If neither Sugano nor Uehara can be candidates, then there's nobody else left
>>91
Same goes for Togo and Yamazaki Iori. Though Togo looks like he might be bouncing back this year.
Same goes for Togo and Yamazaki Iori. Though Togo looks like he might be bouncing back this year.
*This article is excerpted and summarized from the 5ch (Nandemo Jikkyo G) thread “Uehara Koji: “The 3 Big Aces Since Heisei Are "Saito-Masa" Kazumi "Tanaka Ma"” ← Wait, what?“.
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